Scions of Iron v1.3 |
|
Mephiston
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3  Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:18 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
 |
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 4262
|
|
I apolgise to everyone for taking this thread off topic. I wasn't looking to stir up a scout titan debate.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Markconz
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:32 pm |
|
| Purestrain |
 |
 |
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
|
|
I am happy with the costs for Warhounds and T-Hawks as Hena has them now. I don't think taking 4 of these in a list should be encouraged unless the warhounds are a pair. Single Warhounds should cost a premium in my view, and I don't see a good reason to change it here really. Should T-Hawk CAS also cost 275? Yes, perhaps, but not convinced at this stage.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Charad
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:53 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Finland
|
|
Do you really thing it is underpriced with 250? Counting that they lack the templates other bombers are equipped with I am pretty sure they are right as good as they are now. it would be +75 points for a craft that lacks the standard transport ability and fits three shots more than the standard Thawk AND does cost points from my support pool so I cannot field another support choice because of wierd point costs. I don?t think I am willing to pay this, then I want to have back the standard Thawk configuration. If you fear them, get rid of them, it?s not that complicated it sounds. (at least I loose Thawks in nearly every game to be honest)
And TWO single Warhounds are not overpowered. Compare their value to some other scout Titans and you will find out you are paying much points for some agility. (Subjugator, Questor and Ferals and even Revenants are much better for their bucks. ) So a NO to 275, but maybe a 0-2 in every list.
Compare CAS thawks shooting ability to best bombers around, eldar phoenixes. Also 1+ ini, better save, Ap capability, possibility to defend against 15cms interceptors. Really it is a bargain!
Only scout titan that is really having better effectiveness/cost ratio is chaos feral. And really fast armies usually pay premium from numbers and durability. So you really mean that warhounds are overcosted? Whoa... 
_________________
Rats Keep Running...
Dark Eldar Dracon
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Soren
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:43 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 694
Location: Austria
|
@charad: Warhounds are OK as they are (250). There is no need to make them 275, because THEN they are overcosted. I think it?s something like personal taste but subjugators are quite good and 275, but ways better than a plain Warhound, not even looking at the speed but their Titan killer weapons and secondary armament. (75cm?). Clearly better than a warhound with the same price if you raise it.
And I am not happy with 275 for a Warhound because it limits the choice of support formations to an unnessecary state. And because this lists limits single Warhounds to 2, this even strengten my proposal to keep ?m at 250. The main thing in the vanilla Marine list is, you can take 4 of them. Not here, so why make me paying for things I cannot do anyway?
And to be honest, nobody with 5 grams of brain mass will engage a Thawk at 15 cm and IF somebody will do this, he will get one 1! shot back, not that what I understand a good air defense (all about firing angles and placement). To AP capability: If you engage armored units, most of the time AP is wasted, exept you are lucky enough to have mixed formations, which are clearly a favoured target for this bomber-type. But nothing to make it more expensive. As I said, they can get rid off quite easily with some tricks (and fighters of course  ....or you are TAU, Necrons or Eldar which happily accept your point gift of 250)
_________________
Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Charad
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:20 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Finland
|
|
When they are allowed only to two per army, people will take the two so they'll max it anyway. So cost should be right and amounts of nobrainers should be minimised.
Thunderbolts, chaos, orks, they have to come close if they want to use full intercepting power. thawk is extremely durable and it really can ignore single/few shot AA sources (hunter, firestorm, etc). It really is not easy task to trick it. And with having ini 1, one blast marker doesn't slow it down almost at all. When comparing CAS thawk to any other bomber, it has best arsenal+durabiity/cost ratio.
_________________
Rats Keep Running...
Dark Eldar Dracon
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Soren
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:49 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 694
Location: Austria
|
I never take two, only one of them so am I no nobrainer? Else taking one denies me a Thawk.... Drop a Hellfire shot if you thing CAS is too good
_________________
Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Charad
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:20 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Finland
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Soren
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:36 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 694
Location: Austria
|
|
Remove only one Hellfire shot. I don?t think that two hellfire shots are worth +75 points above the standard Thawk config.
The bomber configuration is more anti-infantry oriented and hosts more flexibility. While CAS looses most of it?s bonus shots against infantry, Bomber config still can do damage with the template. And ignore cover is quite a good ability which we are lacking in the list other than the bomber. I would stay at 250 with the bombs. It?s not that underrated it looks like.
_________________
Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Charad
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:43 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Finland
|
|
CAS is not much worse against infantry than SB.
Hena, phoenixes cost 400pts for 3. 2 phoenixes (266pts) have average 2 hits at 45cm.
_________________
Rats Keep Running...
Dark Eldar Dracon
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
CAL001
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:11 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:54 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Australia
|
|
Hey Hena,
A question on your stats for the Thunderhawk Transport, why is it that it is given 2 x Heavy Bolter Defence Mounts, are there not four sets of heavy bolters on the model itself? Just wondering why you wnet with this.
Cheers
Aaron
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
CAL001
|
Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:10 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:54 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Australia
|
|
Thanks for that mate, I am interested to try a few things when I get back from the dessert.
Cheers
Aaron
|
|
| Top |
|
|
