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Transports for Dreadnoughts

 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:56 pm 
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(Pariah Press @ Oct. 08 2007,15:16)
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Well, looking at my 40K models, I don't see any way that a modern-style dreadnought could fit through the doors of a standard Land Raider or Rhino. ?Maybe it could stand on top? ?:)

...on the same token, I don't see how 10 Space Marines fit into a Rhino! ( simultaneausly at least) :confuse:

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:18 pm 
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Stackable Armour tm.

5 upright, the other 5 on their heads to get the shoulder in.

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:08 pm 
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(J0k3r @ Oct. 08 2007,21:18)
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Stackable Armour tm.

5 upright, the other 5 on their heads to get the shoulder in.

Lol!  :laugh:

It seems like even Blarg's enthusiasm for the idea is dying out, but I'd still like to see an attempt at a list where they can be transported if anyone can be bothered.

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:06 am 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 08 2007,18:08)
QUOTE

(J0k3r @ Oct. 08 2007,21:18)
QUOTE
Stackable Armour tm.

5 upright, the other 5 on their heads to get the shoulder in.

Lol! ?:laugh:

It seems like even Blarg's enthusiasm for the idea is dying out, but I'd still like to see an attempt at a list where they can be transported if anyone can be bothered.

Oh no, I'm quite resolute on this one.  You guys are going to do whatever you want to do, in my group there is a good chance dreadnoughts will be able to hitch a ride in a Land Raider.

I think all of the other suggested changes, such as improving the armor or the FF rating are wrong and do not fix the real problem - the lack of mobility for the dreadnought.  An improved armor save or firefight ability does not make the dreadnought go faster or allow detachments that are saddled with it to become more mobile outside of a Thunderhawk.  I don't care if you give the dreadnought a 2+ reinforced armor save and a FF rating of 2+, I still don't think I would take it.

For the army list submission contest I was seriously going to do an Iron Hands army list.  But with the background info showing that their commanders strive to become entombed in dreadnoughts (the ultimate expression of replacing the weak flesh with metal), dreadnoughts having a sever lack of mobility outside of T-Hawks, LC, & drop pods, and the Iron Hands not being noted for being an air-assault army, I've decide against it.  As the rules stand the Iron Hands, even though being a mostly Codex Space Marine army, will not work.

The reason why I posted is to give some of the members here that don't normally post some further background on prior discussion and present another point of view.

The only thing lagging with me is my resolution to post anything on these forums...

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:28 am 
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Blarg - rather than spending your time ranting at the members of this forum, how about you actually execute your ideas in some sort of useable form and post that, rather than hoping someone else will do it for you? Ideas are nothing unless they are followed through to completion.  

I want to see your complete Iron Hands List with whatever dreadnought transport you come up with. I have a 40k Iron Hands army and I'd like to see what you'd do with the concept in epic.  Heh you even have a chance of winning a prize if obliging fellow Epicomms members isn't enough reason for you.

Please make an Iron Hands list and post it to the resource page. Can't make it any clearer than that.

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:23 am 
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Ok guys, what happened to support-your-local-Maltese-enginseer-by-not-giving-him-more-ideas-for-conversions?
Good job  have no Dreads to set the scale AARGGH the DRM Velites and vergers are the right shape, just slightly big :(
Now.... Land Raider transport? Dedicated Rhino? Or something different? Ummm... Not a flyer; that option is covered. Not a Land Speeder, too cheesy and anyway you'd need three with a sling to carry a dread.
Give 'em wheels?

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:25 am 
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The Orks, of course, have no such issues.... :p

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:34 am 
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But what I'd like are rules for what I'd call 'informal auxilia': homegrown detachments which are not on the official lists,  but which can be added to a specific army just for fun games and scenarios. For example, a Dread formation with transports. The rules would have to be balanced, and aligned with official rules: a dread transported would have no super-dread stats; and a transport based on any type of vehicle would have to have its same speed, and no weapons other than a heavy bolter at best. In fact, I'd go about it this way:
Dread 'spearhead' formation - up to x dreads (I'm not good enough at rules to say 4 or 10 or 200) with one transport per dread: the transport could be derived from any Imperial vehicle (and no bikes or walkers), retaining the original design's speed and armour, but armed with just one heavy bolter. This would permit people to adopt solutions according to their available models and conversions. Points for the transports would need to be formulated, although I'd prefer a fun and fancy free approach and just give a fixed cost whatever the transport type - as long as the weapons are restricted as seen above.

And there IS a precedent in the canon - if the Black Templars can make a Crusader, and the Blood Angels a Baal Predator, who knows what brainier and less rigid marines could come up with  :;):

Oh, and for an easy way out, just let the SMs have a Leviathan or CI.... :)
Not VERY fast, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:51 am 
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AT least with the Capitol Imperialis the SpaceMariens would have a land based transport vehicle for Dreadnoughts ;)

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:45 am 
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For the army list submission contest I was seriously going to do an Iron Hands army list.  But with the background info showing that their commanders strive to become entombed in dreadnoughts (the ultimate expression of replacing the weak flesh with metal), dreadnoughts having a sever lack of mobility outside of T-Hawks, LC, & drop pods, and the Iron Hands not being noted for being an air-assault army, I've decide against it.  As the rules stand the Iron Hands, even though being a mostly Codex Space Marine army, will not work.


The Iron Hands only have about 4-6 Dreadnoughts IIRC, as they've not rebuilt any after losing most of theirs ten thousand years ago at the Istvaan dropsite massacre. They make their ordinary Marines into cyborgs, but they don't make extensive use of Dreadnoughts.

A made-up chapter (IE: The 'Ferrus Rursus' Chapter, which means 'on the other hand' in Latin) would gel with this idea fine however. It could have all sorts of different Dreadnought configurations too (Mortis, Furiso, etc).

As with Markconz, I'd love to see you stop complaining at the guys around here who have been producing concrete results and present some of your ideas in a cohesive format.

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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Psst: Ferrum = Iron
Manus = Hand
Rursus = again, against, reverse

"Manus Alius" would be "The Other Hand"
;)





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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:07 pm 
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QUOTE
rursus :  on the other hand, in return, back, again.

Can't say as I ever learned much Latin though. :)

So, 'Iron on the other hand' :D





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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:31 pm 
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I'm too. I use this here http://www.albertmartin.de/latein/ :) But you will need an English/German translator too :D

But back to topic: Dreadnought Transport: Capitol Imperialis FTW :D





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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:38 pm 
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So, in principle, we are looking for a ground-based formation that can reflect the status of the Dreadnoughts -  - - - hmmm

How about some form of elite bodyguard for the emperor, a single company of picked troops in their own transport. Something like :-
4x Terminators
4x Landraiders (transport pattern)
1x Commander (captain)
total 575 points

Upgdrade 0-3 Dreadnoughts with transport Landraider, 75 points each
Upgrade replace 0-4 transport Landraiders with standard pattern Landraiders 75 points each


Transport Landraider stats
Speed. . . . . 25cms
Armour . . 4+ (RA)
CC . . . . . . 5+
FF . . . . . . 5+
2x Heavy Bolter . . . . 30 cms AP4+
Transport: may carry 1x Terminator or 1x Dreadnought
The Dreadnought is locked into place when being transported, and may fire in the fixed forward arc.

Notes :- the "transport" Landraider was a heavily modified adaptation of the standard model. The sponsons, Lascannons and some of the upper bodywork were removed to save weight. The upper body was modified to make room inside for a Dreadnought, and special mechanisms were added to deploy and recover the Dreadnought.

Following the Istvaan dropsite massacre, the Marines adapted a very small number of Landraiders to carry Dreadnoughts to ensure that they could be transported to battlefield or recovered using the ramp and crane mechanics
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 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Nice idea.  However, why not have the core formation with normal land raiders and the transport variant only available if you buy dreads?  Or is this a point cost issue...

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