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Archived [NetEA]Dark Angels 2.1

 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:46 am 
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For the nephilim I'm only going from the lexicanum description which suggests a twin lascannon by default in the nose, or avenger bolter as an option. The twin HB and missiles are always present. For the record, the inclusion of the nephilim in the EpicUK list has resulted in their viability - people bring them to tournaments now. In that list the weapons are twin HB, las and missiles. All weapons at 30, two 5+ AA (the missiles are not AA, so treated more like bombs).

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:33 am 
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ortron wrote:
Ref the speeders, sorry, I assumed you could take all speeder options now, and like the standard list assumed you'd pay +25 points for each Typhoon. I assumed the tornado was a free swap though with the standard speeder. Is this correct or are you only allowing the tornado and standard.. (please say all)

For some reason I read it as Tornado instead of the Typhoon. My plan was to allow free swap of Tornado and not add the Typhoon. Do we really really need the Typhoon?

ortron wrote:
I like your ideas with the iron wing, I'm a bit short on predators it seems.. I probably wouldn't take the vindicator option much though as your paying a premium for them in this list. Still a 6 strong unit of annihilators would throw down some serious AT, likewise the destructors would make a good supporting fire unit, definitely something to think about.


True on all your remarks. I'm really considering making a Caliban Predator.....

ortron wrote:
Ref the scouts, have you had much luck with multiple units of scouts? I know the scout heavy list was all the rage a while ago but I'm dubious about investing much time in multiple units, I generally take 1 for screening and flank protection but 800pts worth of scouts limits other choices, still the DA ones are all snipers so that might increase their usefulness.


In the general SM list I have ran 2 squads and they did a good job screening the board and objectives. The RW Support might be better option. But I really wanna see if the Sniper en mass would be hurtful, guess it would depend on the enemy.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:44 am 
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Kyrt wrote:
For the nephilim I'm only going from the lexicanum description which suggests a twin lascannon by default in the nose, or avenger bolter as an option. The twin HB and missiles are always present. For the record, the inclusion of the nephilim in the EpicUK list has resulted in their viability - people bring them to tournaments now. In that list the weapons are twin HB, las and missiles. All weapons at 30, two 5+ AA (the missiles are not AA, so treated more like bombs).

I see, plus I have gather the data from the Codex.


Dark Angels Nephilim Jetfighter
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Avenger Mega-bolter 30cm (AP4+/AT6+/AA5+ OR AP3+/AA5+) Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Darksword Missiles 30cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward Arc


After thought I'm thinking the above stats might work. The Ave Mega is a lesser model compared to the Vulcan, AP3/AT4. It seems to me more Inf focus was the idea behind it, so we could keep the AP3/AA5 or bump it all up AP4/AT6/AA5.

Secondly is Missiles. With the ability from the Jet itself, seems like shooting down AC is something its decent at as well as popping a tank if need be.

I prefer making Megabolter and Missiles straight AP or AT thus reducing the overall power of the AC. If targeting AP units 2 weapons, AT 2 weapons and AA 3 weapons.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:44 am 
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Well AA4+ for the missiles is going a bit far. I think the EUK stats are friendlier (is that even a word?! LOL). Let's not try to reinvent a wheel here. KISS. ;)

BTW including the AC now instead of later when the list hits Developmental is a better option because you get more play with it from the beginning and don't have to fart about trying to slot it at a later date.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:47 am 
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IIRC the EpicUK stats don't give AA to the missiles at all. They have 2xAA5+ in that list. I agree with Dobbsy, 3 AA attacks with one hitting on 3+ is too much, and is out of whack with other aircraft in the game. You have to take the 40K weapons/stats with a pinch of salt for aircraft (e.g. look at the thunderbolt...), and the marine aircraft introduced into 40K recently have a silly weapons loadout that IMO need not be slavishly carried forward to Epic.

On a more practical note, its other stats (better armour*, initiative 1+, longer range) compared to the thunderbolt already are pushing the value of the formation up past 200 points, it will become too expensive if its firepower is too great - especially the AA firepower. A formation of 2 with those stats gets more hits than 3 night wings - you'll be going from having no interceptors at all to possibly the best ones in the game. Some restraint would be wise.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:50 pm 
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i agree with the 2 bove posts. that fighter is waaay to good!

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:45 am 
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Quote:
Avenger Mega-bolter 30cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Darksword Missiles 30cm AT4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc


Better?

How many point worth per plane? How many per formation? There small so I thought like 3 or 4 like Lightnings?

Dobbsy your really pushing for the planes eh? *Sigh* Time for a poll me thinks!

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:51 am 
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Does any other fighter sized thing in the game have three AA shots each? Still seems very very good, esp on the intercept.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:06 am 
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Yes, 3 AA shots is too good.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Comment on the aircraft moved to the DA AC poll/thread.

Quote:
ortron wrote:
For some reason I read it as Tornado instead of the Typhoon. My plan was to allow free swap of Tornado and not add the Typhoon. Do we really really need the Typhoon?


mate I think you should:
they're pretty standard in 40k RW armies,
they exist as a model,
there is no fluff contradiction that I can think of, in fact to me they are quite "fluffy", and
they are also a good "count as" stats for a land speeder vengeance, (Typhoon ML being vaguely similar to what a multiple shot plasma cannon could do).

Unfortunately due to illness, our DA test for this week is canned again. Sorry it may be a few weeks before I get the opportunity to add another Batrep.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:20 am 
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Just curious what proxies are people using for assault terminators?

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:15 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:

Dobbsy your really pushing for the planes eh? *Sigh* Time for a poll me thinks!

Mate, it's your call. I'm just giving you feedback and options if you decide to go that way.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:40 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Quote:
Avenger Mega-bolter 30cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Darksword Missiles 30cm AT4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc


Better?

Still too powerful. Loose the AA on the missiles and it becomes more reasonable compared to other epic aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:43 am 
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atension wrote:
Just curious what proxies are people using for assault terminators?


I used Sisterhood Athenas, from Onslaught:

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:22 pm 
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I agree having 3 AA shots is too powerful, two AA5+ at 30cm range is pretty good as it is, you can max your shots and avoid most defensive fire from stuff like thawks, landas and ork fightas

there has been plenty of discussion elsewhere as to why AA4+ on an interceptor is too good

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