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Imperial Fists

 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Yes they do! Oversight on my part there....

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:04 pm 
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had another game last night against dptdexys' nurgle black legion, lost 3-1 in turn 3, couple of combats didn't go my way, although it was nice to see my thunderfires save 4 hits with 4 rolls of 6!

thoughts:

again I went light on the defenses, with just two tarantula formations, one was ignored while the other was eaten by a warhound, overall they weren't much use in this game as they didn't have many targets, mostly rhinos and warhounds...

thunderfires are great, really excellent at breaking units with a mass of disrupt hits, however as they're so slow, you run the risk of serious force slowdown if you include more than 1 formation...

I really like the devs and landraiders formation too, it's a mite too expensive, but still fun and pretty shooty

After discussion with Steve54 last night, and via PM with Dobbsy, I'd like to formally move the list to deveopmental at the earliest convenience :)

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:40 am 
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Nice! Congratulations! You've done a lot of hard work on this list.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:00 am 
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Gonna be taking a break from playing the Imperial Fists for a couple of months, I'm happy with where the list is at, it's pretty stable and needs some playtests from other groups, plus I have Emperors children, eldar and ork armies that need attention and to be totally honest I'm getting mildly fed-up with marines after playing them almost non-stop for 2 years! ;)

I'm going to be keeping an active eye on the thread and would like to encourage people to post any batreps or experiences they have as well as thoughts on the future of the list, with Dobbsy's blessing, I'd like to move to developmental with the next revision, then we can plan the big push towards approval!

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Dave and I did a playtest on Wednesday, IF 0.3 vs. steel legion.

Here's what I took (the tacticals and devastators with the upgrades were in bunkers with minefields):

Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Imperial Fists (NetEA V0.3)
==================================================

DEVASTATOR [300]
4 Devastator units plus transport, 3 Rapier

DEVASTATOR [300]
4 Devastator units plus transport, 3 Rapier

SCOUTS [150]
4 Scout units plus transport

SCOUTS [150]
4 Scout units plus transport

TACTICAL [350]
6 Tactical units plus transport, 3 Thudd Gun

TACTICAL [475]
6 Tactical units plus transport, Supreme Commander, Hunter, Razorback

PREDATORS [325]
4 Annihilator, Hunter

PREDATORS [400]
2 Vindicators, Hunter, 4 Destructor

LAND SPEEDERS [200]
4 Land speeder, Land Speeder Tornado

2 THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [175]

2 THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [175]

Here's Dave's list:

Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Steel Legion (NetEA Army Compendium v20120208)
==================================================

REGIMENTAL HQ [550]
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Hydra

MECHANISED INFANTRY COMPANY [450]
Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Hydra

MECHANISED INFANTRY COMPANY [450]
Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Hydra

ARTILLERY BATTERY [250]
3 3 Manticores

ARTILLERY BATTERY [250]
3 3 Basilisks

SENTINEL SQUADRON [100]
4 Sentinels

SENTINEL SQUADRON [100]
4 Sentinels

DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE BATTERY [200]
2 Deathstrike Missile Launchers

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

STORM TROOPER PLATOON [350]
8 Storm Troopers, Valkyrie Transport

Attached is a couple pictures at setup. Dave placed his T&H objectives right at midfield, widely separated. So in placing my minefields, I could not make it harder for him to claim or contest them using mines. I used my trench (and some razor wire) markers as mines.

List composition: Dave took a tournament-ready list, and I wanted to try out fortifications, but with upgraded firepower. So I took some garrisons with added protection and AT/AP upgrades. I've had trouble using this type of build in the past, so tried to get some resilient and/or fast FMs in there too, for the "hammer and anvil" approach. The scouts, preds, and devs would support the defense line, but preserve themselves in order to get across midfield and claim objectives.


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Last edited by captPiett on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:34 pm 
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(Pay no attention to the IG floating out in the middle of the board; it was a time saving measure, they're not actually set up there).

The battle: suffice it to say that the hammer and anvil plan did not go well for me. One of my regrets was not taking artillery. Dave had plenty of juicy targets and did not have to castle up because I didn't take termies either. He had a lot of his own arty too. I used my t-bolts to break the basilisks, but the manticores ended up being too tough to crack. Even with a jink I still lost one and didn't get to them. They killed two tacs and a thud gun with a barrage (to give you an idea of my luck this game, those losses all came from failed *bunker* saves. Yay!).

As seems to be typical in every game I play nowadays, a first turn of moving my forces into position is followed by a turn 2 loss of strategy. Having lost strategy to the IG (now that's fancy rolling on my part!), the IF were in prime position to be taken apart, and that's generally what happened. I failed a lot of saves and generally rolled poorly. My depleted tactical (as an example) was supported by my BTS, which moved up, then sustained twice, for a total effect of laying three blast markers over the course if the game (maybe killing a chimera, but I think that was the land speeders).

The result was 2-0 victory for the IG in turn three (T&H and DTF). Turn 2-3 pics attached.


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:49 pm 
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Assessment: not the most valuable of playtests, to be honest, due to the disparity in luck. However, I am at a loss as to how to effectively employ the minefields. Our regional meta game (ugh, I just typed "meta game" -sorry) is characterized by midpoint objective placement. Even if my opponents aren't used to facing fortifications, they're likely to negate the mine fields' effectiveness by preventing me from putting obstacles in front of the T&H, simply by "normal" objective placement.

I really should have taken terminators and/or whirlwinds. They're absence gave the IG too much freedom of action. Although even if I had sunk some points into the arty, they most likely would have been schwacked by the IG longer ranged stuff. (That doesn't seem right for the IF to me, hence my lobbying for basilisks in the lists, but that's a dead argument, so neither here nor there as they say).

Fortification placement: our big question from this game was do fortifications taken in place of transport have to be placed in coherency with their owning formation, or can they be put anywhere? I assumed that they were part of the owning fm, so they needed to be in coherency. As seen in the photos, this severely limited the possibilities for placement, basically dictated by the enemy if one wants to garrison. Would it be possible to allow the IF to place mines on the other side of the board (not as deep as the deployment zone of course)? Maybe within 20cm of the opponent's T&H, so they actually affect his movement/objective grabbing? Dave mentioned a pre-plotting mechanic (like orbital bombardment) as an option as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:33 pm 
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thanks for the report :)

really glad you played it as you did as it really highlights the weaknesses the list has IMO

I've always taken terminators in my games, they're pretty much a given as you need them to deal with threats like artillery (especially manticores and void spinners) as well as to prevent your opponent pushing forwards and screening their table half with scouts as Steve54 notably did against me a few months back!

did you play with the increased bunker save (ie unit has RA rather than the 3+ cover save)?

honestly I'm not surprised, making marines hang around and get shot at is just not the best way to use them! as I've said before, I've tended to take a couple of tarantula and hyperios formations and then just push forwards with the rest which has been quite effective as IF have a bit more firepower than their codex equivalents thanks to thunderfire batteries and fellblades

if playing the EpicUK transport rules I think the fortifications would be handy, you can choose before deployment whether to bring rhinos or fortifications, but NetEA means they're fixed as part of the list

as to deployment I'd say you can deploy the 'plus transport' fortifications as normal ones, you then don't have to put the formation in them (although you probably should!)

Intrigued by the idea of deploying minefields in the opposing half, however the list already has so many special rules and concessions... I'd rather try to figure something out.... I do however like the idea of hidden minefields

maybe you could place them as a marker which has a 10cm radius, you could then spend say 25 points for 1-2 dummy markers so your opponent is never sure where they are

alternatively how about for a certain cost, the IF can put a 15cm minefield around an objective in their half?

any other ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Oops, I missed the RA save for the bunkers; we just played the 3+ cover save. I also managed to miss all the other special rules... I think the only one that might've made a difference was the extra BM removal rule for being in the siege works however.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:41 pm 
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list formally moved to v0.1 developmental status, thread now locked, discussion and testing continues here

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