Sounds like a plan. I've been painting Dark angels of late, so pending what direction you give re SM testing, Cal and I will probably work towards those lists first but DA will be of special interest to me when their time comes and will get the odd "just for fun" game.

Thanks Dobbsy

_________________
My NetEA Lists:
Fir Iolarion Titan Clan List
Dark Angels List

Always looking to Trade!
Angel's Trade Thread

Angel,

What's cracking with the list mate, I am looking to do some more marine testing and thought I would have a look at DA. So where does it sit in the grand scheme of testing and what not. Fathom my last compendium it is experimental, what is needed for the next step?

Looking at your last post, particularly the last remarks, what revisions do you have for the list in any?

I have a host of men soon to be Dark Green and vengeful, they will need some training in the near future.

Cheers
Aaron

Battle report using the 2.1 list:

http://sdahl.net/~sdahl/whepic/20140519/

Thoughts:

I like the list, the main limitation (no Titan support) is well balanced by the abundant plasma cannons.

- We never used the "Intractable" rule; Marines rarely Hold.
- Ravenwing Tactics: Is that 5 Tornados for 25? and why are Typhoons not allowed?
- Should Land Raiders follow the Codex list and be priced at 325?

Thanks for the batrep Speaker.
Good to see someone using the DA

Would you have an optional idea for Intractable?
Yes all are replaced for Tornados for 25 points total. Slightly different to the Codex and should probably go to "free" as the Codex does.
Standard Land Raiders should all be priced the same throughout all SM lists.

I think this list would benefit from inclusion of some of the newer DA gear. In particular a review of the Raven wing units. As the list lacks allies, I think it should aim to capture the Da specific stuff. After all, they are the units created and maintained by the DA for their independent operations.

Possibly. My view is "perhaps, but other than fluffiness, what do those units really bring to the table?"

The LS Darkshroud is particularly "kitchen sink" design to me and wouldn't really work in Epic. The Vengeance is borderline but I can see that a Twin Plasma cannon Land Speeder option might be useful but TBH couldn't it be done using a standard LS or Typhoon just as easily without the added unit stat line? (Granted the Typhoon isn't actually in the list at this point) .

I don't see any need for "Intractactable" at all; It comes into play so rarely that it's prone to be forgotten, and the effect seems both marginal and not particularly fluffy (isn't it more an Imperial Fists or Squat thing?)

I don't mind the newer units, but dont see a pressing need for them, particularly since there are no obvious models out there to fill the role.

The Darkshroud could be fun, though, if for instance the presence of the unit granted a -1 to hit modifier to its formation, or to units within 5cm.

I like the absence of Fighters and the small discount on (multiple) Hunters, it gives a distinctive feel to the list.

It's OK that the Tornado upgrade is not free, it is a marked improvement over the plain DA landspeeders - which are markedly worse than standard landspeeders, with their HB armament. They are still useful as spoilers, but without the MW attack, they''ll rarely damage anything. I'd suggest pricing the Ravenwing support at 175, with the upgrade to Tornados (or Codex Multimelta?) at +25 for all 5.

Cheers for the Land Raider pricing. 325 seems a reasonable price point, both here and in the Codex list.


Before the game, we thought about adding a special rule for including the Fallen in the opponents army - that's what the army list is for, really, hunting Fallen. It might be something added to the list for "friendly games only"? Here's a stab at a wording:

"After deployment, the Dark Angels player may announce that the force is Hunting Falling. If this is done, the opponent publicly picks any one of his or her formations that includes at least one infantry units; that formation is considered to harbour a Fallen.

If this formation is completely destroyed as a result of an engagement, the suspect is considered captured, and the Dark Angels army scores an additional goal in the Tournament scenario.

When Hunting Fallen, the Dark Angels cannot achieve the Blitzkrieg goal"

This effectively replaces the Blitz goal with a manhunt. It can be made harder by requiring an Interrogator-Chaplain in a formation engaging or supporting the capture engagement, or made easier by allowing shooting attacks to destroy the target formation. We'll probably try this some day, just for kicks.

My issue is the nerfing of LS within the list when they should be a focal point.

To me the 3 standard speeder options are a must
The Darkshroud would be easy enough to implement - unit grants own formation "a 5+ cover / hull down" effect
Vengeance could be a way to add in some MW firepower - short ranged Executioner
The DW fighters give the army some airpower which is has none of - then there is no need to give a "un-fluffy" Hunter increase.
- models for all these are easily "counts as" or converted from existing 6mm speeders/flyers

If the fighters aren't going to get off the ground, then consider the mortis dreadnought w/ 2 x TL Autocannons AP4+/AT5+/AA5+

I think the work AoC has done so far is great, but currently this list still feels like Green SM with worse speeders and no allies. Why not take the opportunity to make it more divergent from the standard list to give it a unique flavour?

Cool idea Speaker on an alternate victory condition, a modification to that would be the to make the BTS objective the enemy warlord or SC when they're on the hunt, representing the need to capture/kill a key heretic. If that proves too OP, the DA could suffer a -1 Victory condition if the enemy supreme commander is on the table and still alive from turn 3? -Failure is not an option.

Cheaper LR is always a good thing

A fluffy buff that I would have liked would be the option to add an additional character to Ravenwing and Deathwing formations, with the restrictions that the two characters are different.

I could then have both Deathwing Librarian and Interrogator-Chaplain in the Deathwing, or Master of the Ravenwing and an Interrogator-Chaplain in the Ravenwing. It would cost the usual +50 points, but would give access to an additional Fearless Leader, making those two formations almost Eldar Aspect-level elites.

Hey AC(s),

I've made an Armyforge file for the Dark Angels v2.1 list; Is it OK by you to get it uploaded to the site?

Speaker,

AoC has not posted in here since Sep 13. As an assist to the play testers I would say send it to Kyusssians so he can load it up.

@Dobbsy, mate as we spoke about at at HB, I think we need a new AC here. We are keen to see this list move along and have the time to commit play testing resources to it.

Cheers
Aaron

_________________
My NetEA Lists:
Fir Iolarion Titan Clan List
Dark Angels List

Always looking to Trade!
Angel's Trade Thread

AOC,

Thank you brother, nice to see you back. Please touch base with Ortron, he has some great ideas. We have a solid group here at the moment willing to test lists we all enjoy. Capitalise on the desire of people to help you move this forward.

Cheers
Aaron

OK, Done.


No problem, took only a few hours. It's a very accessible format.