I think Glyn has some good points here. Might be worth using a similar list using the extra points and utility you'd get from these suggestions and see if it still feels like you're playing with one hand tied behind your back as it were.

I'm aware of the previous batreps, I just try to joke about that a working BA list is without any dedicated (and expensive) BA units

I'm happy, that some of you think that the list is balanced -I don't agree with that! BA special units are super expensive, nerfing the Stormraven to 2x one shot is a poor man's Vulture, for the same point cost -without it's range and scout (garrison, owerwatch) capabilities.. The Baal Predator is too expensive to be useful, big units of Assault Marines are waste of points, etc..

Personally, I think, that the list should give a chance to Assault Marine based army lists, according to the fluff -now, a list like this is just not working. Well, I painted a LOT of them, which was a watse of time -but I will keep supporting them, in this topic also

I played around 10 games just in this year with this list, and I still like it! It struggles against Minervan, AMTL, heavy mechanized armies -Steel Legion, Eldar mechanized, etc..

We have a guy around our, who's also playing with BA, with Land Speeders +Bikes garrison heavy combo, and sometimes it works well!

Hey Pati, post battlereports of your games so people can see the problems you think the list has. It really helps!

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At the moment, i don't have too much time to write long battle reports (as i should), instead of that, I try to share my experiences! I usually make lists for testing only a few aspects of the BA list qt the same time -Drop Army, Assault Marine heavy army, etc.. of course, sometimes I play with a normal, balanced army list

I'm lucky, because I have a lot of different opponents, from Eldar to IG

I support Assault Marine based BA armies!

To be honest Pati, given the number of posts you write in this thread you do have time to post a batrep It doesn't have to be written all at once.

Just to be clear... There won't be any drop podding Assault Marines in the BA list.

XM, can you put any Tactical/Devatator formations with Land Raiders together? I think before we go adding and changing stuff we need to assess formations that can be put together now. I think the above two options for AT will work and provide what seems to be lacking.

Guys, you're right!
maybe I'm just too lazy to write long posts.. I understand that dropping Assault Marines is against everything, it was just an idea -I will drop it then

But I'm still against 250+75p =325p Assault Marines! too expensive, useless unit..

I also want to try out the LR+Devastator combo, but those units are not typical for a BA army, neither the Scout+Stormraven combo..

Define "useless unit..." Against what? Against RA targets, perhaps so. Against infantry or LV...? Not so sure. I think 8 Assault units going base to base with 10 IG infantry units would be pretty one-sided.

Everything has a tasking. Assault Marines vs a Leman Russ company is not the tasking for that unit.


Why not? What exactly is typical? I'd say Marines of most Chapters are generally a highly adaptable force that does what needs to be done however they need to do it. Don't get stuck on fluff too much. It's a nice base but doesn't have to be the only way things are played.

Actually Land Raiders loaded with Deveatators ARE in the Blood Angels fluff

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Yeah, I have 1 painted LR and 3 unpainted. I could get the other 3 painted up. So, a list something like this?

DEATH COMPANY [425]
Chaplain, 4 Tactical Death Company units, 2 Stormraven Gunship

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [425]
4 Devastators, 2 Land Raider, Blood Angels TL Lascannon Razorback

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [425]
4 Devastators, 2 Land Raider, Blood Angels TL Lascannon Razorback

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [375]
6 Assault Units, 2 Assault Units, Chaplain

THUNDERHAWK [200]

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [325]
6 Assault Units, 2 Assault Units

THUNDERHAWK [200]

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [600]
6 Tacticals, 3 Stormraven Gunship, Supreme Commander

That's awfully light on activations, but, I can give it a shot.

Sorry, I also have to agree that 6 - 8 stand assault marine formations are nearly useless. Too tired at the moment to go into the reasons.

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Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

Actually, wouldn't the Dev formations likely lose a Razorback or a Land Raider because of the Marine transports requiring minimum to transport a formation. So 4 Dev would get :

2 LR or
1 LR & 1 RB & 1 Rhino or
1 LR & 2 RB

Anyway you swing it you can save points.

Have you pondered Devs in 4 Laserbacks (RB) for AT fire? Comes in at 350 so another 75 points cheaper. Not as resilient obviously.

Would the Assault formations need to be 8 large?

I was thinking something like:

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [250]
6 Assault Units

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [375]
6 Assault Units, 2 Assault Units, Chaplain

THUNDERHAWK [200]

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [600]
6 Tacticals, 3 Stormraven Gunship(or Land Raiders), Supreme Commander

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [400]
4 Devastators, 2 Land Raider

TERMINATOR DETACHMENT [400]
4 Terminators, Chaplain

THUNDERHAWK [200]

DEATH COMPANY [425]
Chaplain, 4 Tactical Death Company units, 2 Stormraven Gunship

SCOUTS [150]

I'd like to make a couple of rebuttals, here. I mean no disrespect at all but -

1) I just got done talking about how the delivery systems for the BA assault units are expensive. Your suggestion is to spend even more points on delivery systems? I'm not following.

2) Don't bother taking spacecraft unless going drop heavy? Well... considering the strike cruisers can only contain 20 stands, I'd say that it's nearly impossible to go drop heavy with them.

3) You have not actually playtested the list, yet, you think it's fine the way it is. Hmm. There are people on this thread who have in fact playtested the list who are saying it needs changes.

I'm not trying to be combative, it's just that you're saying you don't think things need to be changed, but in the same breath you are admitting you haven't actually played with the list and discounting the experiences of people who actually have.

I'm not heated here Really, I'm not. It's just toy soldiers.

_________________
Former Blood Angels Army Champion
Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter
Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

Dobbsy, I will try exactly that list in my next game and let you know how it goes. It looks good, but, I am nervous about the activation count and also nervous about that naked 6-stand formation of assault marines. I think I am up against mechanized Biel-Tan next, so this should be a good test...

_________________
Former Blood Angels Army Champion
Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter
Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

Well originally I considered 2x6 Assault Marines in a Landing Craft.... but you'd lose the Scouts and still be at a low activation count. I also tried to fit a Land Speeders in the mix early but came up just short.

The 6-unit Assault I would tend to use in a combined assault - like a numbers builder for the Tacticals or the like. Also don't discount them as fast objective grabbers/holders/deniers. It's not an ideal use of their skills but late game they could be handy. I tend to use my 4 unit Codex Assaulters that way and would generally like extra troops when I do.

I added the Termies instead of the extra Dev formation as they work as a dual role formation. They put out good shooting but can swap to assault as well.

The costs for the delivery methods are the same as in the Codex list though (where they've been tested a huge amount and are well balanced). BAs have better assault units and faster vehicle transports so are better served than regular marines for the same delivery costs. For one thing I was correcting you that Thunderhawks cost 200 not 250 like you mentioned, but I was mainly responding to this:

You're right on the other two but not necessarily where you say that air assaulted Blood Angels are pretty much stuck in place. Taking an empty, spare Thunderhawk to redeploy air assaulters was a genuine suggestion and it's relatively often done by SM players. The extra 200 tends to be worth it to redeploy and when not needed for that it can act as a bomber.

True I haven't played Blood Angels but I have played Codex Marines and other variants loads, so I have some cross-over experience and familiarity with most the of the units. Assault Marines are fine in the Codex list when air transported and even cheaper here (with the advantages of frenzy and the larger formation size) so I don't see a problem with them.

There's a lot of good options for Assault Marines and assaulting playstyles - Assault Marines + a Furioso Dread and a Chaplain would be a nasty air assault unit in a Thunderhawk. Or 2 x Assault Marines and vehicles in a Landing Craft. Sanguinary Guard, plus Terminators with a Chaplain and 4 Land Raider Redeemers would be a beast of an assault unit when transported in a Landing Craft - scoring an average of 10.6 hits plus a further 6.6 MW hits (enough to cause 6DC damage to a Reaver if it's shields had been taken down already). When used well frenzy allows for one formation to move and shoot into a position to add FF support, then retaining with a second unit and still assaulting automatically (assuming no blast markers) due to the +1. Blood Angels need to make use of this and the extra +5cm move on vehicles to get the most out of the list.

I do find Stormravens look a bit on the expensive side, but the stats are appropriate (4 shots for the missiles was OTT) and I'd rather see the formation go to 275 if needs be (I don't have enough familiarity with them to judge if they need it or not).

Question for Dobbsy: Assault Marines can take the Heavy Support upgrade. Can they take Land Raiders and if so how many? They're not transported in them per say, but the Salamanders list allows Assault Marines to have Land Raider or Redeemers with them, so there's precedent.