because it's the internets?

And because its Land raiders! Why are they important? Minor reason iconic unit. Major reason - we have f'ing shed loads of them knocking around! If they were made into stats worth only 25 points each i would be estatic! I have several hundred of the buggers and worse I've got more than a dozen new ones for the landing craft loads and conversion to crusader and redeemer versions!

Chroma summed it up. Do it.

FF4+ would not be game breaking because of the limited numbers of units that will ever be on the table, and the even more limited occasions where they would get to use their FF.

350pts per formation and 75pts per upgrade are spot on IMHO.

As a thought exercise, lets suppose that they were costed at 50pts per upgrade and 325 pts per formation, with FF4+ etc thus making them 'very' popular. Even under these conditions, I do not think there would be huge numbers because LRs are sub-optimal in isolation, they need to be fielded with other units and usually in a support role. Consequently IMHO you would never see more than 8x units on the table in a 3000 pts army, which in turn makes the FF4+ or FF5+ debate less than trivial.

As Chroma says, the costing and use of the Predators is much more problematic, and ought to be the subject of a separate debate.

Started a Predator thread. :-)

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Hena: Would please post a list of the final stats and point costs*?

* Obviously, point costs can shift slightly based on the context of the list, but there should be a solid starting point.

Because you guys really need another cook for this soup

This has probably already been decided, but I'm for 75 pts and FF4+ as well.

Now my real question is while you guys were fiddling around with the stats, did the Landraider Ares ever get into the mix? I know that I posted a thread some ages ago asking about potential points and values, which were supplied.

I think it may have even shown up in one list (Apocrypha of Skaros?), but also would be quite thematic for Imperial Fists or other Siege oriented armies.

Anyway, just curious.

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Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

The Land Raider "Ares" was a one-off conversion GW did as an example of how to make your own tanks for Apocalypse. Its canonical status is extremely foggy, to say the least.

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Absolutely no argument there at this point in time. It is one of those "legendary" formation vehicles that GW created to support Apocalypse, much like the LR Terminus Ultra. Short of expanding the standard SM codex to include these one offs, then I agree, it is unlikely to find it's way into standard SM mythology.



Actually, that's not quite correct. It was a model created and then legitimized through Apocalypse with a GW approved data sheet. It only exists in Apocalypse, but it appears that 40K and by extension Apocalypse could be heading for some interesting changes in the next version of standard rules...not the least of which is flyers, as evidenced by the BA/GK Stormraven, interesting rumors of the IN Thunderbolt, and the two new Dark Eldar flyers (a fighter and a bomber).

However, that all remains for the future to decide.

So, if the Ares was not included because there isn't enough of a reason to include it at this point, that's fine. No heartburn from me.

Maybe someone might include it in one of their variant lists [looks over at Frogbear] at some point and it can be considered in the future.

Cheers,

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Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

From the GW website:


Says it all, really.

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I think we are in violent agreement

My point is, that the fact that GW bothered to come up with a data sheet gives it implied credibility, whether it's deserved or not. You could take that datasheet into any Apoc type of game anywhere and it would be accepted.

If you, as an unknown individual, attempted to do the same thing outside of your own gaming group, you would not generally have the same level of acceptance.

E&C: I'm not trying to argue for the Ares, only point out that coming from an official GW source (i.e. data sheet) lends credibility. That's all.

That has nothing to do with the exercise in this thread, so I apologize for sidetracking.

Cheers,

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Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Though, for what it's worth, I have come around to the view of thinking the Ares is worth considering for the Dark Angels army list, purely because that list is having some trouble finding a way to be unique.

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Well, canonical isn't the end of all things. FW stuff isn't canonical.

Everything it does is vetted and passed by the core GW studio.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter