I think 0-2 at that price seems reasonable. It doesn't hurt to have more, just agree that I doubt anyone will take 3 in anything less than 5k. As it's not breaking anything though it doesn't hurt to keep it as is.

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BA vs Ulthwé
BA vs Saranes Crusade IG

3000p

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=27124&p=515627#p515627

The eldar washed the floor with the BA's.. in the second game, the termies saved the day

Experiences, opinions: The Assault Marines worth shit Bikers even less BA armies are not for shooting, panfully weak in AT, and a Falcon+Wave Serpent based army is a though one. The Warlock solved the CC questions The weak point of an Assault Marine based army is the way how they get into CC.. Even Drop Pod avaibility for Assault Marines can be an answer. Which is heresy it's against the original concepts of the game

Umm I'm a bit confused. Assault Marines taking drop pods...?

Of course not, just it can be a solution for them A cheaper one, than one Thawk/Assault Formation!

Some things you just have to put up with

Why not? BA is an assault marine based army, so why not to send them to fight in a Drop Pod? Can be another BA only special stuff (I think a better one, than include THT's for example..), maybe just a bit stronger, than Devastators in Drop Pods, and much more fluffwise

Sorry, done with dreaming..

I just find a minor mistake -in the Salamanders list, the Predator Incinerator's heavy flamery (small arms) ignore cover, while Baal Predator's not!

Ok, I just played against vanilla marines today -and i was shocked by the predator destructor's 3+ FF, while the Baal Predator is 4+..

Anyway, do you plan to make the Drop Pods avaiable for Assault Marines?

Had a long discussion with Xenocidal Maniac last night about his battle with the Ad Mech PDF. I'll let him fill in details (not to steal his thunder) but general conclusions were 2x Missiles on the Storm Raven == Good but that should be then balanced with the ability to take Predator Annihilators otherwise 1/2 of the already deficient anti-armour ability of the list is gone. Better to spread it around and get's limited by the poorer synergy with the Baal. Might be something to try out.

Assault Marines in Drop pods is just silly talk

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Thanks for leading into the conversation, Jimmy.

Yeah, I played against AdMech PDF last night for a league game, and, while I didn't get horribly spanked or anything, it definitely felt like an uphill battle all game. By turn three, although I still had a lot of formations alive, I didn't feel like I had very many options at all to contest objectives or shift enemy formations off of objectives. And BTS? Forget it. No way I was going to destroy it.

This is the list I took -

DEATH COMPANY [300]
Chaplain, 4 Assault Death Company Units
DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [250]
4 Devastators
THUNDERHAWK [200]
TACTICAL DETACHMENT [325]
6 Tacticals, Captain
TACTICAL DETACHMENT [375]
6 Tacticals, Supreme Commander
SPACECRAFT [200]
Strike Cruiser
TERMINATOR DETACHMENT [400]
4 Terminators, Chaplain
TERMINATOR DETACHMENT [350]
4 Terminators
DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [250]
4 Devastators
LAND SPEEDERS [200]
5 Land Speeder
SCOUT DETACHMENT [150]
4 Scouts

I pulled off a couple of really nice supported assaults on my left flank, and rolled up his two sentinel formations early turn 2 to limit his objective grabbing abilities late-game, but... I just had nothing at all that could crack his Macharius formations or his mechanized BTS troop formation.

The primary problem for the Blood Angels is, since they are so assault oriented, once you've committed to an assault either via teleport, Thunderhawk, or drop pod, you're pretty much stuck where you are for the rest of the game. And the enemy maneuvers around you with impunity because you have no ranged fire. So in this case, I was able to grab his Take and Hold and Blitz, but he also had my Take and Hold and Blitz, and then once he destroyed my BTS it was game. But even if he didn't get by BTS, he could have simply moved a formation over to contest his Blitz. Yet I did not have the numbers nor the mobility to contest any of the objectives he was holding. I did force a turn 4, but didn't really have any expectations of winning short of unlikely dice rolling.

I totally understand wanting to make the list work as a very thematic assault army, however, unless they are either BETTER at assault, cheaper points-wise, or they have SOME kind of anti-tank, I don't see this list working on a competitive level.

You may ask why I didn't take any more Thunderhawks or Storm Ravens. The answer is because I didn't have them painted yet. I will try that next game. However - I don't see the net result being any different. The primary issues are:

1) The expense associated with delivering the marines to the assault - Spacecraft is 200, THawk is 250, 4 Ravens are 300, teleporting termies are 350 base. This adds up very quickly.
2) The lack of mobility once the assault is complete

The potential solutions I see -

1) Add some anti-tank formations to the list. Pred Annihilators or Land Raider Formations.
2) Decrease the cost of assault units and / or their delivery mechanisms
3) Increase the assault power of almost all of the infantry choices. I honestly don't see giving them the equivalent of a "Furious Charge" of +1 to combat result in the turn they initiate an engagement as being unbalancing, given what we are working with now.

Those are my thoughts.

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Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter
Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

Before I make a change to the Storm Ravens or add Land Raiders or Predators, I'd really like to see the Storm Ravens in action with the standard 4 missiles, XM.

Will you be painting them up any time soon?

Yeah, 4x missiles might help. Sure, I can have them painted by next game. I've got them base coated.

Currently the list has them at 2x missiles, I believe - you want me to run them at the original 4x?

_________________
Former Blood Angels Army Champion
Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter
Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

I played with 4 missiles/Stormraven recently. They're still weaker than SCOUT Vultures in garrison and OW.. I think 4 one shot missiles are quite OK. Why to have the same point cots (300p) as Vultures, which are Scout, 120cm range, and also 2 missiles one shot?!

I know that they are also transports (altough their range is half the garrisoned Vulture's, which is a main drawback..) -but this is not a big stuff, so i don't think they need to be nerfed. Stormravens are not my favourite, but they are good for AT huntung in a BA army -next ti them, there are very few AT units in the list..

About the battrep: Your list fits more a Codex Marine one, so be ashamed no Assault Marines, no Baal Predators, no Furioso, no anything BA like even no Stormraven PROXIES

And about the Assault Marine + Drop Pod combo? Why not? Fits the BA fluff, a cheap solution to get the guys into CC, and just another combo, that makes a list more of a flexible one.. Assault MArines are not superheroes, have oly a few upgrades ,and they are weaker than Raptors (my main suggestipn against their 250 points ciost!)

Right, I don't think you understand. Try looking up some of my other batreps.

I didn't run the big units of assault marines because they don't work. 6 - 8 stands of BA assault marines are basically a waste of points, particularly without a way to deliver them. I have run Baal Predators many times before, and, while effective (though costly), they don't help me against armor-heavy armies such as AdMech PDF or Steel Legion. The Furioso dreadnoughts, again, I have used numerous times, and they are way too expensive at 75 points. Even 50 for them is questionable.

So... I think it's more a reflection on the list than it is on me that I am running them more as Astartes, simply because that is what is more effective. However, Astartes can take Warhounds and Pred Annihilators.

(I am NOT knocking Dobbsy List just needs a little more tweaking to work)

I do think I agree that drop podding assault marines would make them much more effective, although I recognize it goes against existing fluff. (Then again, so does drop podding terminators for Space Wolves)

_________________
Former Blood Angels Army Champion
Epic Gamers Los Angeles Chapter
Armies Played:
Blood Angels
Black Legion
Codex Marines
Imperial Fists

Please no drop podding Assault Marines! Lets stick to existing background and norms.

If you're finding your Thunderhawk cargo has limited movement then take a second empty Thunderhawk, land it nearby and get them back on board that one. That way they can fly in and out in one turn and then in again elsewhere on the board next time.

Don't bother taking a Spacecraft unless you want to run a drop heavy list. Thunderhawks are only 200 not 250. I'd probably use Ravens as Scout transports over seperate formations of them, they get to garison that way.

Balance-wise I think the list looks fine as is (and compared to the Codex list) and would like to see a lot more testing before any changes are to be made. I plan to playtest the list myself at some point, but am working a lot and not getting many games in these days.