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Land Raiders
frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:07 pm 
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I am lost on the Land Raiders. Can I please get some clarification as I am updating a new list:

Land Raiders - What costing are they and are there any stat changes from the 4+ 6+ 4+ ?
Land Raider Crusaders - Same as above and are their stats 4+ 5+ 5+ for the cost?

There are just too many pages to read over again and people are throwing different points around..

Thanks in advance.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:09 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
@Land Raider Crusader:
Better would be: Hurricane Bolter Sytem, Small Arms, Extra attack (+2)


Ninja'd again!!

This was going to be my next post. The current stat line is confusing. Make it EA(+2) and remove the 2x from the Hurricane bolters

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:22 pm 
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It was discussed in the first pages of the Imperial Fists "what is so different?" thread.

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Hena wrote:
frogbear wrote:
I am lost on the Land Raiders. Can I please get some clarification as I am updating a new list:

Land Raiders - What costing are they and are there any stat changes from the 4+ 6+ 4+ ?
Land Raider Crusaders - Same as above and are their stats 4+ 5+ 5+ for the cost?

There are just too many pages to read over again and people are throwing different points around..

There is only stats here no costs. For Codex, there is 85 point cost for LR no Crusaders. I suggest that 85 is base cost for Crusader as well to variant lists. Currently Scions use 175 for a pair costing (which is about the same as 85). Helios should be more expensive and I have 225 for two in Scions for them.

So were not going with the 75 points LR base? =(

85 is a damn annoying number...
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:35 pm 
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85 doesn't work. You either have 2 for 170 (175 really) - questionable anyway as both Terminator transport and upgrades for devs (pretty much dictates 2 dev formations with a single LR each and also if you are serious a las razorback and hunter for 425 each as firepower and AA firebases) - or one for 85 which is really a 100 and never going to be taken.

Even at 75 they get edged out in list construction in the EpicUK tournies where you would think if they are that good they would be common.

Still I guess if variants don't like it they can drop the cost in their lists. Which also of course would affect their balance as some variants are better in air assault than on ground and not easily comparable to basic land raiders as a result.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:40 pm 
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They're worth 75pts.

Does that make the Predator Destructor look crap?
Yes, but that's because the Predator Destructor is crap.

85pts is just awkward. :-/

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:16 pm 
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So, lower the costs for all the vehicles again and its 300 point warhounds and 375 point terminators :)
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Simulated Knave
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Hena, you routinely insist on the need for 25 point increments. I'm really not sure why this should be an exception.

Plus, as so many others have pointed out, they're not an undercosted choice at 75. Not at all.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:01 am 
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I'm with the others. 75pts per upgrade is the correct upgrade price. It still a hard choice for any marine formation - consider Hunters for example.

350pts for the formation is also about right. They are still not abusable at that value, though a formation of Crusaders dropped by Landing Craft is a very attractive formation for supporting assaults.


The main issue is that Predators are very brittle and are hard to use well, so feel over-costed at 300 or even at 275pts. Over-pricing LRs does not address this problem.
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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:08 am 
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It seems just about everyone wants 75 point land raiders.
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mattthemuppet
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:50 am 
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zombocom wrote:
It seems just about everyone wants 75 point land raiders.


except the army champion :)
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:52 am 
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zombocom wrote:
It seems just about everyone wants 75 point land raiders.

+1
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Markconz
 Post subject: Re: Land Raiders
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:07 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
zombocom wrote:
It seems just about everyone wants 75 point land raiders.

+1


+2

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