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[NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010

 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:14 pm 
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As well as the Land Raider to 75 and Crusader to 275 corrections Hena's mentioned there are other errors in the Black Templars list (I suspect you transcribed an older version of the list by mistake as most of these were changes in the newest version):

Emperor's Champion is missing Fearless and priced incorrectly - it should cost 50pts. Also perhaps it should be moved to amongst the list of other Black Templars specific units as they're the only list that has it?
Neophytes should be 75 points for two units OR 150 points for four units.
Neophyte bikes should be 35 points each, you may add up to four to the formation.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:50 pm 
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This now makes the Salamanders Predator Incinerator (Heavy Flamers instead of Heavy Bolters) worse at FF as it still has FF4+ (with Ignore Cover to the base FF-attack).
Should it be changed to FF3+ too?

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:23 pm 
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I used to want the 3+ FF option but changed my mind and prefer an alternative of making them slightly cheaper instead by costing them as ‘250 if the formation contains 2 or more Predator Destructors, 275 otherwise.’ I reckon that fits best and you may see some mixed formations that way too.

If not that then 3+FF is better than they are now though.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:25 pm 
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I'm happy to see them move to FF3+.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:58 am 
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Just to check - how's this coming along?

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:20 am 
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So is the Predator Destructor FF3+ now?

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:07 am 
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And given the birth of his new son we may be waiting a bit....


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:16 pm 
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I've just spotted another typo in the document that no one else has mentioned so far - Attack Bikes should have FF4+ but the document mistakenly lists it as FF5+.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:38 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
I've just spotted another typo in the document that no one else has mentioned so far - Attack Bikes should have FF4+ but the document mistakenly lists it as FF5+.


Oh man! Now they are even better! ::)

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Yeah, I took it to be correct when I first saw it and was sad for my Attack Bikes. I actually see them as an ok unit and plan to use bike formations with 1 or all 5, but a drop to FF5+ would discourage me.


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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:02 pm 
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It's rather justifiable, honestly. I mean, FF4+ means they're as dangerous as a Predator. I mean, really?

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:37 pm 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
It's rather justifiable, honestly. I mean, FF4+ means they're as dangerous as a Predator. I mean, really?

FF4+ does make sense. A single Heavy Bolter gives FF5+ while a formation of 3 SM bikes with twin bolters gets FF4+ i.e. 1 pip of FF per bike. The twin bolters on the bike pulling the Attack Bike sidecar add +1 to its 5+ to end up with FF4+. If you look at the W40k total shots of the two 3 bikes is 6 while and Attack Bike with Heavy Bolter gets 5 (3 at higher strength) so it’s pretty comparable.

Yes in reality would be better worse to be shot at by a Predator Destructor than an Attack Bike, but FF value translations inevitable have to cover a range of units and I think it’s fine for both of those to be FF4+. The Destructor point drop fixes the units viability much better than FF3+, which is comparatively OTT and would make it an assault unit with often taken Librarian upgrades.

It's also always been FF4+ and it's not regarded as an overpowered unit at all. The real oddity with the formation is the Bikers CC3+ as when translating from their 40k abilities a stands of 3 x Bikers should only really have CC5+. I've suggested changing that before, but the consensus seemed to want to leave it.


Last edited by GlynG on Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [NetEA] Space Marine Army Section - DRAFT 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Well, I think it more accurately would be worse to be shot at by a Predator Destructor. ;)

In regard to Libs in FF3+ Preds - that's not a Librarian. That's a Techmarine! More seriously, having a Pred with a lot of relatively short-range many-shot anti-personnel weapons be an assault unit makes a certain degree of sense...

In regard to the CC - I suspect it's partly a reflection of their increased toughness.

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