Well, in that case, we should discount the Land Raiders and increase the cost of Infantry that can take them. After all, they might take them, so they should clearly pay for that...

Oh wait. People would think that was insane.

But apparently that argument's solid enough with Thunderhawk Gunships. A unit whose capacity to transport other units is innate. Yes, a Thunderhawk can be used for other things, but its transport capacity is an integral part of its capabilities both in-game and in the background. Trying to argue that every unit that might ride in the Thunderhawk should pay for that ability is ludicrous. One unit is possibly hurt by the Thunderhawk paying for the transport ability, as opposed to several (all of them iconic) being hurt by the alternative.

Especially when we could just add another Thunderhawk variant into the basic list...

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Simulated Knave says in quite a frustrated manner what I am getting at with this whole thread.

The current format of costing is ridiculous. It makes the newer players (such as us) wonder why a change cannot be made when there is only a very weak arguement as to why it exists in the first place. Otherwise if the current menatlity is to stand, I want my Space Marine Land Raiders as a formation priced at a cheaper rate.

Currently the Thunderhawk is priced cheaper to not take into account Transport unless it is used for this manner. In doing so it becomes a cheaper activation. Attempting to argue that the cheaper Land Raider proposal is taken into account by the activation it gives is a flawed example and falls over in the face of the whole arguement supporting the Thunderhawk. Really, you cannot have it both ways. One rule for all.


QFT. If all this is because of the Assault troops, then that is a bad design of this unit/formation. Pricing everything else up is hiding a flaw that should be fixed.

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Note that I'm objecting to the idea that we need to save the poor dears who want to strafe with their Thunderhawks. There are other reasons for making the infantry pay, and while I don't agree with them, they're not prima facie silly. Needing to deal with the fact that different units get different benefits out of riding in a Thunderhawk, for example.

However, Frogbear, you're overlooking something - no one's saying the Land Raider should pay for its ability to transport when it's a formation. What people are saying is that any discount it should receive for not being able to transport is balanced out by the utility of it being a formation of bloody great tanks with a unified purpose and an activation.

An equivalent force of Land Raiders as an upgrade costs 300 points and doesn't give you an activation. It's also tied down to other units. This costs 50 more, gives you an activation, and isn't tied down. It's possible it should be 325. It shouldn't be 300.

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You musten't forget Landing craft. They can air insert anything int he list. Indeed formations of land raider crusaders are fun when used this way. Even whirlwinds can be planetfalled into a good position for turn 1 firing. So its two units to consider, both thawks and landing crafts. The latter- how expensive can it get before its non viable?

This is flat out wrong. Thunderhawks pay for their innate abilities, including transport.

You are taking the sole example of "Thunderhawk premium" - assault marines - and making a false inductive leap to the generality that all SM formations pay it as well. Then taking that erroneous conclusion to infer that the Thunderhawk is not paying for its transport ability.

I do recall seeing someone stating that the premium was also included in Devastators and Tactical Marines as well. Those also factoring that premium into Drop Pods as well. So there might be some confusion.

Morgan Vening

However the impact in this list is pretty much standard enough to be the same I would think.

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