And Vindicator formations, and Land Raider formations, and ground-based Assault formations, and also Warhound Titans (still too cheap at 275pts IMO), and probably more...


It's good to see this thread topic arise again.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Surely the failing is with the poorly designed epic SM list rather than W40k marine ideas? Epic lists should aim to match their W40k counterparts and background and this one has always been lacking in terms of the breadth of competitive lists.

It might need testing and balancing but I am definitely behind the all-arms marine list and the reasoning for it. I'm not disputing Marines are hard for newcomers to play or that you get into it after a while and they can be competitive and do very well at ultra-competitive play.

The problem rather is internal balance issues between units in the list which are too good, or too poor, and that a ground based army isn't competitive enough - the general idea of this list is to make a ground based marine list a bit more competitive while leaving the more airbourne style around the same, is that really such a bad thing? Would have a wider range of competitive lists to play with and against not be a good thing and make SM more interesting?

In the UK tournament records I can't remember a Marine list without titans of one sort or another placing in the top half (I should know, Its normally me without the titans and I shall once again be trying at this weekends GT)

I've got over my "mud marines should work stance" of 2 years ago. When the Imperium wants a force to go toe to toe on the ground they call in the guard. Want a lightning strike to decapitate the enemy, send in the Marines.

Can marines win with a pure ground force? Yes, but you better play a blinding game as your not playing to your strengths.

The problem is of course that the core Codex army list in the rulebook claims it is able to be used in both an air assault and a ground pounding style.

Clearly, the rulebook is incorrect, and the list a partial failure.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

But it is inferior, ergo the list is flawed.

It is no coincidence that the greater majority of NetEA changes apply to ground based units, not airbourne ones.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

As ever, the 'fluffy' choice would be to base your army around a battle company, to whit:

- Tactical Formation
- Tactical Formation
- Devestator Formation
- Assault Formation

And then fill out the rest of your army as you like. The greater majority (like 90%) of Marine actions in the background consist of a battle company undertaking a mission, reinforced if nessesary with units from other companies, but always with a battle company as the core of the army.

That Tactical formations are only really useful as bodyguards for Supreme Commanders, and are not useful in their own right as a battle formation, is another failing of the list, of course.


You could make a respectable argument to say that your list is an 8th company army, as a decent number of your formations would use marines from that company (Assault, Assault, Land Speeder, Bike)... but it certainly isn't a 'typical' Marine army according to the background, as the 8th Company is normally used in support of a Battle Company, not the other way around.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

If you consider Rug's army to be a Blood Angels successor or such like then the lack of dev's and higher numbers of assault formations is fluffy.

I'm taking the following to the GT

Tactical
Tactical
Dev + Hunter + SC
Assualt
Terminators
Scout + 2 x Las Razorbacks
Strike Cruiser
Landing Craft
Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk
Thunderbolt
Thunderbolt

So the Battle company plus friends basically. Lots of deployment options available.

Will I do well? Doubt it, lots of Eldar in play.

Except for the bit where Blood Angels have no more Assault Marines than any other Marine Chapter, or the bit where they have just as many Devestators as other Marine Chapters, sure.  

Like I said, you can make an argument for it being an 8th company army from any vaguely Codex-adherent Chapter.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Context is everything ; how many air-dropped Whirlwind formations have you ever seen.  

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I've been tempted a few times, but my landing craft has only just been painted!