Newbies aren't idiots.

The only reason things are "confusing" at the moment is because GW stopped supporting EPIC and forced us to fend for ourselves.  If books like the Compendium, or the NetEA Army Book, are all nicely layed out, with an introduction and explanation, there will be no confusion.

For example, there could easily be an "Imperial Fist Siegebreakers" list and an "Imperial Fist Defenders" list with no confusion at all in such a system, and removing the current confusion is one of the major goals of the NetEA Project.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Well one list one Chapter/Regiment/Warhorde/Whathavenot is my design philosphy too.
Else we could have Codex Space Marine Assault Doctrine instead of Blood Angels,
Codex Space Marines Crusade Doctrine instead of Black Templars, etc.

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We are returned!
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This thread is getting so snippy, I feel like insulting someone just for kicks.  


I'm highly concerned about the legibility of Epic for newbies, and that in no way means I think they're idiots.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Found the thread with the AA-issues:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....ircraft
Feel free to discuss there

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We are returned!
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I am in support of this proposal. KISS.

I've looked at this model for quite awhile and never realized that it had an AA mount. I'm going to have to model this up in 40K for my army.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

The AA mount is only introduced with the revised stats found in the PDF above. They aren't in the original Imperial Armour book.
So no wonder you missed it  
FW as uploaded PDFs with updates for IA 1 and 2 recently.

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The rules were first released about 4-5 years ago... but Codex Space Marines was released last year so it was time to update IA:2 to bring everything into line with the 5th edition rulebook & codex.

The Tempest has always been intended as the Marine 'fighter'.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Those "rules" you noted are basically coincidences. The stats were worked out on a case-by-case basis rather than some formula. You have spotted a pattern in chaos, not an intentional design concept.

Obviously it was unreasonable for guard to have cheap 75cm AA, so the range got reduced. That isn't the case here, it's 45cm already, which is reasonably average for AA range so really doesn't need dropping. Applying a rigid formula based solely on a single unit is a poor idea.

Plus your justification for reduced range for firing vertically makes a lot less sense for a self-propelled missile than a gunshot.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

How is having a seperate stat for the AA part of the weapon keeping it simple? That's completely different to how every other weapon has worked, and is more complicated and less elegant.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

To be fair, he wasn't interested in it when he didn't know it was intended as the Marine 'fighter'... maybe he will be, now...

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I can think of 2 reasons:  1) The White Scars are focused on bikes, not all fast attack, and 2) that's going to be a Raven Guard focus.

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Neal

Okay... new list instituting the discussed concepts.  I'll get a doc together and up on the wiki when I get a chance.
==================================

Death from Above rules - Reroll planetfall scatter.  Speeders have Planetfall (except the LS Storm).  Termies in Drop Pods.

Garrison in GT - only for Scouts.

=

RG Assault - Drop Packs to transport as Tacs

LS Storm
LV, 35cm, 4+, 6+CC, 5+FF
Heavy Bolter
Skimmer, Transport 1 (Devs, Tacs, Scouts)

LS Tempest
LV, 35cm, 4+, 6+CC, 5+FF
Tempest Launcher, 45cm AP4/AT5 and 30cm AA6
Autocannon

Storm Eagle
AV, 30cm, 4+, 6+CC, 5+FF
Twin Lascannon
Skimmer, Planetfall, Transport 3 or 2 Termies

==

Formations

Bikes

Land Speeder (as codex, plus Tempest upgrade)

Landing Craft

Predators

RG Assault - 4 units, plus 2 Rhinos if they drop the packs - Commander, Dread, Pods, Hunter, Land Speeders, Razorbacks, Storm Eagle, Vindicator - 175 points

Scout - 4 units - Commander, Land Speeders, LS Storm, Scouts, Sniper - 150 points

Strike Cruiser

Tacticals - 6 units plus 3 Rhinos - Commander, Dread, Pods, Hunter, Land Speeders, Razorback, Storm Eagle - 300 points

Terminators - 4 units - Commander, Dread, Pods, Storm Eagle, Vindicator - 350 points

Thunderhawk

Whirlwinds

Warhounds titans only

Normal air support

==

Upgrades

Attack Bike

Battle Barge

Commander

Dreadnought

Drop Pods

Hunter

Land Speeders - 2 Speeder or Tornado, +75; 2 Typhoon or Tempest, +125

LS Storm - Add enough to carry the whole formation, +25 each

Razorbacks

Scouts - 2 Scout units, +75

Sniper - entire formation, +50 (no, this doesn't scale with the Scout upgrade)

Storm Eagles - Replace all transport with 2 Storm Eagles, +125
(note, that means no Razorbacks or Rhinos)

Typhoon/Tornado/Tempest - +0 per tornado, +25 per Typhoon/Tempest

=================

Things to watch/decide:

You could have a Scout formation of up to 14 units, 8 of which would have Scout ability (6 scouts, 6 Storms, 2 Speeders) but the minimum cost would be 450.  It might be a problem as Rug pointed out.  Even though it's more expensive than what EpicUK tried, it's tougher.  It could have the same problems or worse.

Mounted Termies for 475.  It is more fragile and less shooty than when mounted in LRs, but it's going to be fast.  On the plus side, I see this formation dropping as a viable alternative to Teleport because it will have longer assault range and more follow on mobility.

Min-maxed Speeder formations with 3 Typhoons and 2 Tempests for scout ability, garrison and AA.


Other comments:

I went with 2 Storm Eagles because regardless of whether it was 4 or 6 infantry, it would require 2 Eagles.  125 points to split the 50/75 per unit estimates above.

You could end up with an oddity of a formation mounted in Storm Eagles as ground transport with Rhino hulls in support.  That seems goofy to me.  OTOH, limiting Storm Eagles to Planetfall would fix that but seems unnecessarily restrictive for a formation that just wants skimmer transport/support.

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Neal

You have the Land Speeder Storm transporting Tactical and Devestator units... it is only able to transport 5 scouts in 40k, not Tacticals of Devestators.

The Storm Eagle should be the Skimmer transport for them I'd say.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

That's an Assault Cannon not an autocannon and I do think TRC was right in suggesting for aircraft balance reasons Tempests should be a separate formation and not an upgrade, otherwise suddenly every Land Speeder squadron - and loads could be taken - is going to be kicking out AA fire and enemy aircraft are going to quickly get covered in blast markers.

Not repeating other points all I'd have to add if how about using lightnings and lightning strikes? Far sleeker and faster looking, ever little bit counts when making a list that looks like it can hit and run!

Oh for hit and run I would I thought the classic hit and run for marines is attack, thawk out, get stuck back in. Any way of making this more attractive?

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