A 15cm missile launcher is just daft, especially for the ground fire. I see no reason to reduce the range, just because of some silly 40k rule.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Probably true, yes. FF5+ would be fine I think.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Actually in this case it is a silly Epic rule. Wh40k has nothing to do with range reduction.
If following Wh40k lead each AA weapon would only have a 7,5cm range reduction if firing on aircrafts.

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I've never seen any epic rule about reduced range for AA.

Why doesn't your assault cannon have 0cm range then

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

It has a really really crap AA value  

And there is no actual rule but there seems to be a design philosphy behind AA weapons. You might want to search the forum there is a thread with this very topic from me where i laid out this design principle

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Is this design principle actually present in anything other than the Hydra however?

I don't think it is.

I think this is more of a case of Jervis not wanting the Guard to have 75cm range AA, and making an executive decision to drop its range down, rather than applying a strict -30cm to all AA mount firepower attacks! design principle.

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Actually the Hydra does loose range - it's armed with twin long-barrelled autocannon that can fire up to 72" whereas a normal autocannon only fires up to 48".

Reducing the range for AA weapons is not 'a silly W40k rule' but a key part of Epic's AA system - loads of AA weapons loose range compared to their non AA equivalents, it's the norm.

Alternative option could be to list is as:
45cm AT5+/AP6+
OR
15cm AA5+

White Scars are a very heavily themed non codex chapter themed in the direction of bikes... why do a non-bike White Scars list? Why should normal bike based White Scars armies not have access to the vehicle which was desinged to support them? - it actually says in the background "The White Scars Techmarines developed the varient to provide fast moving fire support for the lightning raids of their bike squads."

In all Imperial aircrafts and ground AA units so far i could compare the Epic stats to Wh40k stats. So at the time Epic was developed there existed no such thing as a SM Hunter or Ork Flak Wagon so i couldn't compare the range here.
But with Swordwind there occured some exceptions to this but remember that the Swordwind armies wheren't developed by the same guys who developed the Epic rulebook.

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All I'm saying is that there is no hard and fast rule that says all ground-based AA weapons recieve a -30cm penalty.

So -15cm could easily be fine, or even a 45cm AP/AT / 30cm AA range split could be acceptable.


I agree with Glyn that the White Scars list would be a great place for the Tempest to find a second home.

I dislike the idea of each Chapter getting more than one variant list each, it is confusing for newbies.

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A 15cm Missile Launcher is daft and counter-intuitive.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Actually would the Tempest be an aircraft the ML range would be 30cm with a Forward Arc or 45cm with a Fixed Forwar Arc.

Skimmer alone wouldn't help as the Firestorms (which is a Skimmer) Firestorm Battery has 60" range in Wh40k and only 45cm in Epic.

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There is no hard and fast rule, the stat can be whatever is appropriate and playable.

I like the idea of an AP/AT  /  AA range split, for this unique unit.

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Well you're the man with the upcoming supplement featuring them, looking forward to seeing them there

I think a 30cm range for just the AA shot only would be best compromise.

I like the AP/AT / AA split for every ground based AA-unit. This was discussed too but never seriously considered apart from me  

If it was just me i would revamp the whole aircraft rules and interactions with ground units.

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I am not the White Scars Sub-Champion (actually I don't think there is one) and do not have the time to devote to the list.

Someone do it (fit the Tempest into the list), then the ERC list can replace the list that's currently in my Supplement, and then their work goes into Siege.  

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