I was on a turney last weekend. 3 games at 3000pts andone at 4000pts. Won only one with luck (opponent didn't prevent TSNP) and lost all others.
Nothing ordinary with my winning (or should i say"loosing") streak. I usually play the Salamanders as intended. That is with no Planetfall or Thunderhwak/LandingCraft elements.

My list was:
2985pts

- Tactical Detachment (BTS)
+ Salamanders Tacticals
+ Supreme Commander
+ Land Raider Prometheus
+ Hunter
+ Twin Heavy Bolter Razorback
+ Rhinos

- Tactical Detachment
+ Rhinos
+ 2 Predator Incinerators

- Devastator Detachment
+ Librarian
+ Salamanders Devastators
+ Rhinos

- Assault Detachment
+ Chaplain

- Predator Detachment
4 Predator Annihilators

- Land Raider Detachment
+ 2 Land Raider Helios

- Terminator Detachment
+ Chaplain

- Scout Detachment
+ Rhinos
+ Sniper Upgrade

For the 4000pts battle i got

+ Twin Lascanno Razorback for the BTS

- Whirlwind Detachment
+ Hunter

Vindicator Detachment
+ 2 Land Raider Redeemer
+ Librarian

- Thunderbolt Squadron

Result was usually the same: I advance...and got shot and assaulted to pieces.
1st game vs Codex Marines 0:2
2nd game vs Imperial Guard 2:0
3rd game vs Wild Orks 0:4
4th game (4000pts) vs Imperial Guard 0:4
I usually lost 1/2 to 3/4 of my army.
The Land Raiders where nice in shooting up Warhounds and the Vindicators are good against mechanised Infantry as they can't huddle to their transport vehicles for protection.
Multi-meltas didn't shoot often and when they did they missed. Predator Incinerators Heavy Flamers never got the opportunity to shoot.

Some pictures
http://imageshack.us/g/1/10035384/

So the question i ask: Is the list really that weak? Or do i simply suck at playing this game?

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I'm not surprised you struggled 10/7 activations is really low for any SM list, what was the plan?

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It's Salamanders. They usually have lower activations than Codex Marines, else you loose the Salamanders specific stuff.

Plan was: Land Raiders and Predators goout and hunt tanks and war-engines.
BTS should survive. Assault Marines are mobile reserve and Scouts speed bumbs and character hunters. Terminators should grab Blitz or assist in taking out BTS.

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Thanks for the photos BL. Its nice to see painted(almost?) salamander armies, the green always looks good.

I'd still be keen to see the Infernus (either or both variants) enter the list. The incinerators just seem meh.. I'm think most will take them as standard destructors as its a more useful unit IMHO.

I know you want batreps so I'll try and get some games/batrep over the next month now that CAL is back.

I'm looking forward to it

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Well BL, its taken some time but I've finally gotten a few games in with the salamanders of late. The first was a 2k game against a new ork player in our group. This was a narrow 2:0 win in 3. The second game was part of a multiplayer game were I teamed up with steel legion against orks and AMTL so whilst fun, it doesn't really help with accurate assessments of balance.

In both games I've taken a core of 2 tactical formations, devastators, terminators and vindicators. To this I've added a mix of hunters, razorbacks and bikes and I also took some warhounds in the multiplayer match.

I've generally been keeping the tactical formations back until late turn 1 where they can then double up and prepare for an assault or sustained fire in turn 2. Unfortunately I can't seem to hit a thing with MW weapons but I've had a lot of success with a combination of vindicators & terminators working together in assaults.

In the game against the orks, I had a little success with the predator incinerator when doubling & then assaulting some orks in a building but it still seems a hard unit get the most out of. The need to get close is also very hit and miss. Time it slightly wrong and your stuck in no mans land where the enemy can paste you. Time it right and your still only getting a FF4+ ignore cover or a FF5+MW from the special infantry. For the effort in getting close, its a gamble that your going to hit with enough MW FF attacks to make the effort justifiable.

What I do need to experiment is the air deployment of big tactical or devastator formations. This will obviously help to close the range and get within FF distance without getting shot to pieces on the way.

Have you had any more thoughts on replacing the incinerator with the predator infernus with flame storm or melta cannon?

Have you had any more game or tournaments with your own salamanders force?

Hello again,

I've been gaming withy he salamanders of late but still struggling to find that right mix of tough formations and enough activations.

I'll be taking them to a tournament in late jan, which is 3k, and will hopefully have found a balance I'm happy with by then.

Some questions on the list though if anyone can help:

Why do the salamanders pay more for the thunder hawk? (250pts v200 in other lists),

It also seems strange that:
vindicators can't be added to formations, (the ultimate close range tank)

Tactials can't be all carried in LRs, (upgrade limit is 2)

Assault squads are limited ( the chapter still has heaps, where did they go?)

Now I realise that all lists need some draw backs but wasn't the intent to achieve this with the restrictions on skimmers and bikes?

Finally, is anyone else still playing this list and has managed to do so competitively?

- Thunderhawk: The air assets are more expensive to emphasise the ground pounding style of this list.
- Vindocator: The list has the Predator Incinerator which occupies the same niche as the Vindicator.
- Tacticals&LandRaiders: This is intentional.
- AssaultMarines: The Chapter has 3 Assault Squads in total. I don't see this as "heaps"
- The restirctions are on Fast Attack assets in general as the Salamanders aren't known for their quick warfare.

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Thunderhawk, cool that makes sense, though 50pts is a big overhead.
Vindicator, see your point, personally I guess I'd just like both.
Aslt squads, you are correct I was using the wrong ORBAT.
Tacs & LRs, could they not benefit from the hvy tpt option? Given the legions abundance of equipment in its armoury and preferred method of warfare.

Thanks for the response BL, good to see someone still interested in the list. Have you used it since the start of the year?

I'm reluctand to reduce the cost of the Thunderhawk as air assaults with MW equipped Salamanders pretty much works good.

I had one or two 2000pts games against Codex Space Marines and a 3000pts game against Tau. My winning streak with Salamanders is miserable bt the game against Tau i won. Was the first time my opponent played Tau and i showed him how a clipping assault works and routed half his army So i don't really count this game.

Epic interest in Germanyis pretty much waning but curiously in Leipzig, the city i live in, interest in Epic is growing. Because of this i don't do much play testing as nuturing the growing interest in Epic here. If my opponents grow more experienced i will try to introduce such things as Storm Talon, Storm Eagle and Predator Infernus (but feel free to test them as well).
So let's see what the future holds for us

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I recently took the salamander's list to a tournament, 3k.

List was:
Landraiders
Landraider + 4x Helios + Hunter (BTS)
Vindicators + 2 Redeemers
Tactical + Supreme Commander + Hunter
Devastators + 4x Razorbacks
Scouts + Snipers
Landspeeders
Whirlwinds + Hunter
Thunderbolts

Played against SM, Orks, SM, Iron Warriors, Orks. Overall I won 1 outright, 2 on VP, and two losses in the 4th turn.

Against the first marine I thought I had the upperhand until a single unit of terminators stopped about 50% of my army and a single, indestructible thunderhawk rolled up my entire flank by itself.

Next game against orks was brought back from 2:0 to me to 0:0 when a lander flew threw all my AA to contest an objective with the final activation. Counting VPs I had killed a lot more, the combination of helios and whirlwinds had decimated a number of ork formations.

3rd game against air heavy marine list. Luck was with me on this one, I could do no wrong and my opponent couldn't buy a 6, or anything better than a 2 for most of the game. Still I used the armour very aggressively in this game and managed to take down isolated components of his army each turn whilst taking little damage in return. Once he went defensive with overwatch I used the LR formations to press forward and either take the hits or suppress units before the softer stuff moved.

Next game was against the IW with their dreaded cannon of doom. I planned to hold on the flanks and break through in the middle then roll onto the blitz and it almost worked but a stubborn unit of CSM scouts managed to fight off my tacticals and landraiders and the attack started to stall. The landspeeders harassed the ordinatus most of the game to prevent it firing at will and generally other units had to turn back to see off the speeders. Defilers ate the vindicators in quick succession, and in hindsight they deserved this fate due to poor deployement, they should have been supporting the centre. Alas in the 4th turn some silly mistakes allowed the IW to **Edit (forgot the correct result, thanks Onyx for reminder) ** win 2:1 T&H + Blitz Vs T&H. IW also did well on the VP count as they had managed to rally well and keep the little remainders of formations alive.

Last game was against my mate who I had tested the list against before hand and was confident the 3 hunters and tbolts would deal with his ork airpower. The reality was the hunters couldn't hit squat and what they did just bounced. At ground level the salamanders killed everything that came near them but despite lots of AA the ork airpower and air assaults rolled over me and won the game in the 4th. I F***ing hate ork landers!!!

Anyhow the list was fun to play and the variant landraiders were useful in the right circumstances. The helios in particular are very flexible and were probably my star performers across the tournament. The vindicator/redeemer combo is deadly to infantry formations and surprises people when it rolls 8 dice hitting on 4+ after a double against infantry in cover. They need support though and often died to counter attacks or were isolated and destroyed by enemy infantry in CC a few times.

I generally used the tacticals and devastators to provide a screen of infantry around the heavy armour along with the scouts and speeders. Typically this saw me move in two concentrated combined arms lots that were generally strong enough to counter most assaults and enemy formations however this happened at the expense of my ability to contest lots of ground. I also continually failed to win key engagements, even when statistically I was likely to win.

Overall I'd take them again but look to swap in a thunderhawk or terminators to give me an ability to counter enemy arty or units with long range like guard super hvy tanks etc.

Post tournament I played my mates steel legion list an struggled due to him having so much long range firepower and being forced to march or double just to get into range for turn 2 or 3 assaults.

So in summary this is a good list for those who like a "ground pounding" marine list but to be competitive against all comers you'll still need to invest in air or terminators i think.

This is the exact view I took out of Cancon about the Space Wolves.

Great! Thank you for your report

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I might give the Salamanders a try sometime in the coming weeks. I'm confused you describe them as a low activation army, they look similar to regular SM and could easily have good numbers and play differently due to all the Multi-Meltas.

Is the close support upgrade meant to require you to take two or is this a typo? It seems limiting that you can't attach just a single vehicle.

Why are Predator Incinerators not available in the Predator formation? (Baal Predators come as a formation in the BA list for comparison). I'd like to use a formation of them, they'd be good at killing enemy infantry such as garrisoned troops. I'd never pay 100 for an upgrade of them though, not a competitive choice.

Do Salamander Tactical and Devastator upgrades come with transport? It doesn't specifically say so.

Why can't you take Land Raider Redeemers in the Land Raider formation? They would seem very appropriate and I would choose to use a formation of 4 of them.

They should be a straight swap. Reduced range for burnination is a good tradeoff. Again, Baal Preds shown the way

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