Spent a month distracted with a local tournament, but am now thinking about Blood Angels development again.

I think it might be worth thinking about a statement of intent for what we want the BA list to play like. Comparing with other marine lists, we have:

- Codex Astartes: Uses Thunderhawks to juggle a terminator unit, along with Scouts, Speeders, Thunderbolts, and Warhounds

- Space Wolves: can run cost-effective, very large Great Companies which are resilient to taking some wounds. Fill landers very nicely

- Raven Guard: Focus on very small elite units with Ambush for self-planetfall.

- Ordo Xenos: Also focus on very small units of elite Veterans and Vanguard Veterans, with inducted Guard as an option


Raven Guard and Ordo Xenos both run Vanguard Veterans, whose profile (but not unit composition) I want to steal.

I might suggest for Blood Angels that we emphasize the use of fliers, skimmers, and jump pack infantry for maneuverable, hard-hitting units, but ones which risk running out of steam. We currently have quite few units in the roster and I would feel comfortable adding more. Some suggested additions are:

- Vanguard Veterans: 75 points to add 2 to an Assault Detachment
- Sanguinary Guard: 25 point upgrade to Assault Detachment unit (must already have a Character)
- Fire Raptors: 275 points for 2, statline posted. Could do Thunderhawk CAS instead?
- Despoilers: 225 points for 6 plus transport
- Stormravens: Split into Stormraven Transport upgrade, and Strike Squadron, as said above.
- Destroyers: 225 points for 6, as a Jump Pack firefight unit

Profiles are posted here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dw31Jv3zDkt5Dh56Vr-sRABd0OYT4YIziJliO8AbonI/edit?usp=sharing.

Questions:

1. Any glaring balance issues?
2. Is adding Destroyers introducing too much Heresy stuff?
3. Should I use the Fire Raptors, or just plug in the (very good) Thunderhawk CAS from the Scions of Iron list?
4. Any other ideas?


EDIT:

One very out-there idea I had - summonable Sanguinor? Like an Avatar equivalent.

Double-posting, but I had a brainwave about the Sanguinor, because it can help solve the "falling on your face turn two" problem with the list.

The Sanguinor
Type: INF
Move: 30cm
Save: 4+
CC: 3+
FF: 4+
Blade Encarmine: Assault Weapon, MW EA+2

Jump Packs, Reinforced Armour, Invulnerable Save, Commander, Leader, Inspiring

Deployment:

During the Rally phase, when about to roll to rally a broken Blood Angels unit which contains Infantry or Dreadnoughts, you may place the Sanguinor in the unit. It automatically rallies, and may make one move.

Remove the Sanguinor at the end of the next turn. The Sanguinor may only be summoned once per game.

---

This puts him at a Winged Daemon Prince power level (no MW FF, but some helpful rules). You need to have a broken infantry unit to bring him in which restrains it as a free "win more" mechanic but it can pull your chestnuts out of the fire. It also makes the positioning of your broken units into an important subgame of its own, since you'll get one move but then he only has his charge move engagement range.

Thoughts?

I have a "V.3.1.5" list written. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dw31Jv3zDkt5Dh56Vr-sRABd0OYT4YIziJliO8AbonI/edit?usp=sharing

Removals:
- Bike unit removed (nobody takes this)
- Land Raider Redeemer removed (doubt anyone takes it)
- Terminators are 0-1 (differentiation from Codex Astartes list, and the other terminators are busy on the space hulk!)
- Land Speeder Multi-Melta variant removed (differentiation from Codex Astartes list, overlap with Predator Infernus)

Changes:
- Stormravens split into Stormraven Strike Wing and Stormraven Transport
- Strike Wing get long-ranged guns, including an AA shot
- Transports lose missiles, discounted to 50 each

Additions:
- Vanguard Veteran upgrade option added to Assault Detachment
- Sanguinary Guard upgrade added to Assault Detachment characters
- Sanguinor added
- Fire Raptor Gunships added
- Despoilers (i.e. Mounted Assault) detachment added
- Assault Support Detachment added
- Predator Destructor Detachment added

The current intended theme is to focus in on jump pack infantry. These struggle from a small threat range, being melee-specialists with weak firefight and no guns. The customization options and chance for the Sanguinor to lead a battered unit back into the fray late game is my attempt at making these more relevant.

I do not fully know the process in which this would become the semi-official current version of the developmental list. Apart from helpful comments from my gaming group and others online, I seem to be the only one particularly engaged with the list. I don't even know if it has an army champion.

As always, any opinions are welcome!

Bikes? Fine
Redeemer? Boooooo. Put it back =p

You should hit Dave up to get his blessings on taking over and testing the list. He's running the Marine section now that Kyuss retired

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Good to know - I messaged him.

I'm fine adding Redeemers back in. They don't seem particularly strong, for what it's worth. How do you run them?

with a landing craft and with glee

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I guess that's the way to do it. 3+ IC firefight priced at 125 for 2 feels a bit expensive. Normal raider firefight isn't much weaker and they get a decent pile of guns, and I still rarely bring them.

yeah they probably should be 25point cheaper for 4

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He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
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-Help me make Whitescars not suck!