this I like

my issue with garrisoning whirlwinds is that it's clearly a fudge to fix a big hole in the list.... it may be the only option but I don't like it much....

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(Double post)

Sadly there is no "undecided" button for those of us who have no concern either way.

Obviously the makeup and tactics of a race / nation vary and may also vary over time; this is the joy of Epic. However I get nervous when suggestions like this come along to 'correct' some perceived weakness in a given list. The brief history presented by Glyn (and a similar problem in the Tyranid list) raise fundamental questions about the period of history being fought and whether it really matters.

Basically, is it fair / reasonable for opponents to use armies from completely different periods? To use an historical analogy, this might be like matching Richard I's Crusader armies against Julius Caesar's Legions or Napoleon's armies. Or more in context, is it appropriate to add siege cannon to the Crusader's? To some people, such battles would be 'an interesting exercise' (and not as lop-sided as might first appear). To others this would be anathema; these armies could never fight each other, or this particular combination of unit types was never gathered together in a single army.

I think that I am with those who suggest that at the very least in the IF, the Basilisks and Medusa formations must have some restriction to numbers and be in the Air/Space/Titan section, or preferably in an 'allies' section that excludes the use of the "Air" section altogether.

An alternative might be to specify this list as the "pre-heresy IF list", or the IF list from some campaign making the whole thing another variant list.

I like this suggestion a lot.
I think the formation should be either Basilisks OR Medusas (meaning only 1 of the 2 units should be available at all to the IF).

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+1 to other options.

What is the reasoning for including them that's popped up in discussion? Is it the range or the BP ?

If so, couldn't a larger WW formation be trialled to provide more BP? Abstraction of WW ammo could see them get Disrupt ordnance. It's not much of a stretch to give more character to the IF list.

To me, adding older/IG weaponry to this list starts to make it resemble a HH list (due to the retro weaponry design) and the IF are a modern SM army....

Just my two cents anyway.

it's the range more than anything..... so far the 'allied guard' basiliks are the best option IMO, garrisoning whirlwinds seems like a definite fudge to bridge the range gap more than anything actually siege-like.... plus it puts them closer to the enemy, which is not where artillery likes to be....

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garrisoning whirlwinds is a fudge, but it's not as if bringing in IG units to fill the gap is a fudge-free solution either

nom nom nom fudge

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I bet there will be rules for 'relic basilisks' from FW sometime soon now they've released the HH marine ones....

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Could you do something like
Siegeworks
- bastion with x amount of trenches x pts
for each bastion purchased defensive turrets can be purchased. Turrets can be either 4 annihilators, 4 destructors(ie just the turret of a pred), 4 wwind launchers or 3 earthshakers

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is there such a thing as a whirlwind launcher platform in fluff/40k? I know about the hyperios launcher, can it shoot barrages or just AA?

also steve, would those turrets be targetable? currently we have tarantulas in the list which provide defensive AT/AP fire

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It can attack ground targets.
If it was an Imperial Fists Hyperios platform entry granting Indirect ability it would likely fit the needs of the list while preserving the theme by avoiding shoehorning controversial units intonthe list.

I should point out that 6 strong WW detachments are found in IH list and so far each of the3 test groups have found their points better spent elsewhere. The general consensus being less the concept of the 6WW vs the base cost if the unit itself.

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