Hey guys,

What is a hellfire dreadnought?

Cheers
Aaron

The Missile Launcher / TL Lascannon Dreadnought variant.

The vengeance may be stepping on the typhoon's toes a bit at AP 3, AT 4; the Typhoon being AP 3, AT 5; both having heavy bolters.

Wondering if the Vengeance could be made to fire 2x, then stagger its slow firing shots so that it could fire every turn. As the rules stand, how do multiple shots and slow firing work?

Like I said earlier... is it really necessary? Epic doesn't need every item shoe-horned into a list. There's enough abstraction among all the variants to do a specific job.

Can DA tactical squads with plasma alternate their firing so 3 squads can fire a turn, or must all 6 fire in one turn?

Just as a point of consideration, what about MW 5+, range 30 cm?

The two new Land Speeders should be upgrades only. Yes.

I thought about 30cm MW5+ for the Plasma Storm Battery.

Some stats comparisons:
A Plasma Cannon is 36" S7 Ap2 3"Blast and Gets Hot.
The Plasma Destroyer on the Leman Russ Executioner is a 60" Plasma Cannon with three shots.
The Plasma Storm Battery is a 24" Plasma Cannon but can alternate between 3 shots (no Blast) or one shot with 5" Blast.

Against vehicles the Plasma Storm Battery would be as effective as the Leman Russ Executioner. Against Infantry not so.

In Epic instead of giving the PLasma Destroyer 60cm 3 x AT4+/AT4+ it was given 60cm MW4+ (see Epic: Raiders)

With 30cm MW5+ the Land Speeder Vengeance is just an ordinary Land Speeder with enhanced range but without the FF-MW ability. A pimped up Land Speeder Typhoon if you will. We could switch the Heavy Bolter for an Assault Cannon to give it even more difference.

If we accept a 15cm range (as it is 24" in Wh40k...same range as the Multi-melta) we definately have to give it the Assault Cannon making it a pimped up Land Speeder Tornado. But it should be given FF4+ or even FF3+.

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They can alternate.

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I think multiple shots could represent the larger blast radius. We don't have to even give it a slow to fire rule.

So, what is the latest revision for Dark Angels?

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Is there any chance the plasma cannons can move away for AP4+/AT4+ slow fire to a simpler 30cm AP5+/AT5+ ?

What would it affect, just the leman russ demolishers and the DA list?

Its probably just me but I find it annoying to track so many slow fire weapons and I think the above could scale well with the other smaller plasma weapons if we adopted something like this:

TYPE STATS 40k/Fluff justification
Plasma guns 15cm AP5+/AT5+
typical rapid fire weapon, effective against infantry and armour

Plasma cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+
single shot weapon, longer range but hits as hard as plasma gun but larger blast vs rapid shots. Blast Vs more shots is about the same in epic scale - hence AP5+/AT5+. No longer does it have the option to fire high power like the old days of 2nd ed.

Plasma Storm 30cm AP4+/AT4+
Similar range to plasma gun but is heavier and vehicle mounted so 30cm can be justified. higher rate of fire equates to more hits on vehicles, thus more likely to destroy, hence AT4+. Option to shoot large blast = greater chance to kill whole squad hence AP4+. Basically a twin linked plasma cannon at epic scale.

Plasma Destroyer 60cm MW4+
Same 40k range as plasma cannon but fires multiple blasts. 60cm justified in that its a MBT mounted, relic weapon that should be able to shoot past its nose. Multiple shots and multiple blasts are highly likely to damage/kill vehicles and infantry so I guess we've gone with 60cm MW4+ rather than 60cm 2x AP4+/AT4+ or even 60cm AP3+/AT3+(4+?). Using a direct 40k comparrision the MW4+ isn't justified but within epic it shows the link between the lighter infantry weapons to the larger titan weapons such as Plasma Blastgun and Plasma Cannons hitting at MW2+ Slow.

To get back on topic, I think the DA and IG would be better off with the above plasma cannon stats but no doubt we've probably crossed this bridge a few times before.

This is an old Q. Ortron, but it's answer lies solidly with the Rules committee as I see it. I'd like to change it too but many don't seem to.

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Guys,

Is there anything more happening with this list since last discussions on new units? Further, given the latest 40k allowances on ravenwing landspeeder weaponry, can we have out Multimelta back on the standard speeder and the option to take typhoons?

It seems strange that with all the cool landspeeder toys these guys get in 40k & fluff, yet they get a real restriction in epic?

I've accepted and moved on from the plasma cannon debate, now I just want to see those iconic, DA specific units and I'm happy the DW knights are already taken care of with the assault terminators - just change names as per post above.

The RW on the other hand could do with a bit more love IMO. As for the mechanics of how I could see this working, allow the RW attack and RW support to take standard speeders, then the "RW tactics" upgrade can allow any speeder to be upgraded to a tornado for free or a Typhoon at +X pts and then perhaps a "RW relics" upgrade that allows 0-1 to be upgraded to either a Darkshroud (assault cannon & gives formation invul save?) or a Vengeance (assault cannon + plasma storm battery)

thoughts?

Well AoC seems to be on hiatus. If you want to give those a try and post some feedback on it here I'd be happy to hear it as would AoC, I'm sure. even if it's not in the list optional builds are still something to show data for as we can then point to things that make us go "hmmmm"