Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 333 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 23  Next

Archived [NetEA]Dark Angels 2.1

 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:29 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4311
yep if you want to go back to square one with list balance

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
I'm prepared to work from scratch if necessary :D
BTW Flak Missiles are an option and not mandatory for Tactical Squads. I'm thinking of a 0-1 Upgrade to an 30cm AA6+ shot.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:50 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Flak missiles are really only necessary if the DA can't sort out an Interceptor.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:47 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Thjis we will only know when the Codex is there.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:52 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:25 am
Posts: 97
Location: Taiwan, at the moment...
I'm hoping that will not be such a hard task with, potentially, 2 fighters to choose from. Hopefully, we will be able to sort out RW formations, as well. I also hope we can move on to a true DA list instead of a more limited "Hunt for the Fallen" list people keep holding on to.

But yeah, lots of stuff may not be relevant for epic, but there are some answers to specific problems in that codex, too.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
From someone who has read the novel "Ravenwing"
Quote:
I’ve been reading the new novel Ravenwing, and while I’m not finished yet, the first battle introduces several new units we haven’t seen before. I would not be surprised at all if these were cribbed from the new codex in some way.

First, we have the Vengeance-pattern Land Speeder. They’re described, “Vengeance-class speeders spewed a torrent of plasma fire at the smoke-shrouded walls while rockets slammed into the ferrocrete barrier from the Tornadoes.”

Then we have the Darkshrouds. They’re described:
“Modified from the standard Land Speeder chassis, each anti-grav vehicle carried a pitted, ancient statue from the Chapter’s fortress-monastery. The solemn hooded figures glowed with power, coils of cable sending nascent warp energy through arcane generators that threw out an all-concealing blanket of darkness. As they joined the attack, the shadow of the Darkshrouds enveloped the dropsite, obscuring the Thunderhawks as they touched down on plumes of plasma.”

Also described are Dark Talon and Nephilim fighters. They don’t have any physical descriptions, but the Dark Talons have Hurricane bolters and the Nephilims have Avenger bolt cannons and “Blacksword missiles”.

Finally, we have the Black Knights, which appear to be the elite of the Ravenwing and “Sammael’s chosen warriors”. The book says they have “hammers with beaked heads” (it later explicitly describes them as shaped like raven heads), and they ride bikes with in-built plasma weapons. The unit leaders appear to hold the title of “Huntmaster”. They also know more about the history of the Dark Angels and the Fallen than the rank and file Ravenwing, having been “inculcated in all seven Rites of the Raven, possessors of knowledge above their brethren, though not yet made aware of the Fourth Level of Initiation.”

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Quote:
On Deathwing Terminators (Elite):
A little more expensive (not much) than your average Astartes version but you get Deathwing Assault, Splitfire USR, Inner Circle and Vengeful Strike special rules thrown in to the bargain. You can pretty much customize the squad anyway you like. They start out as a standard tactical squad but you can upgrade any number of them to assault terminators with either a pair of lightning claws (free) or the omnipresent thunderhammer and storm shield combo (you must pay for that privilege). For every 5 models (you can have a max of 10) you get the option of a heavy flamer, plasma cannon, assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher (no flakk option). You can also have the usual dedicated Land Raider but if you do, then you must pay for the Deathwing Vehicle upgrade which is mandatory.

If there is an option to make them a troop choice, it resides within the character section.

On Deathwing Knights (Elite):
Again a little more expensive than normal Deathwing Terminators (still not much). They have +1 WS, Maces of Absolution and Storm Shields as standard except the Knights Master. He has the Flail of the Unforgiven instead of the mace, and as far as I can make out, also +1 attack (don’t quote me on that one). They also have a king’s ransom of special rules: Deathwing Assualt, Hammer of Wrath, Inner Circle, Fortress of Shields and You Cannot Hide. The last two were a little hard to make out, so I’m 100% sure on those. The Smite rule is not mentioned by name but I think it is part of the weapon special rules. They can also be given a ‘… Relic of the Unforgiven’ (the ‘…’ part I cannot decipher) and a Land Raider which must have the Deathwing vehicle upgrade as well.

On Dreadnoughts (Elite):
Now cheaper! Same price as the Chaos Helbrute but with a free Storm Bolter! Same options as the Astartes version – including the Rifleman option but the Dreadnought close combat weapon has been replaced with a powerfist. The Venerable Dreadnought is now an upgrade. I don’t have my books but I think it is a lot cheaper than before (still hard to make out, but it looks like the price of a powerfist). The Venerable also get the Deathwing Vehicle rule as standard it seems. No mention of Mortis options.

On Landspeeders:
Their Bestiary page is also in the WD. The Vengeance version has a heavy bolter and a Plasma Storm battery as standard. Otherwise it is you standard Land Speeder. The Ravenwing Darkshroud version is a Land Speeder with a heavy bolter and it has the Scout USR apparantly. It also has (or has the option for) the ‘Icon of Old Caliban’ which gives +1 to friendly units within 12″ when determining assualt results (not cumulative). The Darkshroud special rule gives the Land Speeder the Shrouded USR and friendly units within 6″ gain the Stealth USR (not cumulative, does not affect the Darkshroud itself).

The codex is mentioned as being 104 pages long.


So we have:
- Terminators with Plasma Cannon
- Land Speeders with additional Plasma weapon.
- Land Speeder with Inspiring
I guess the Land Speeders would fit as 0-1 upgrades.

Mortis Dreadnoughts are already in and i see no big difference in the Deathwing Knights and CC-Terminators to warant new stats.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Australia
Just had a look at the new range and sorry to say but i'm rather disappointed in the new "look". It seems too much and tyre new land speeder is just terrible looking. No doubt stacks of people will like/love the new OTT gothic/monk look but it's turned me off. Like to know how you keep candles burning on the back of a landspeeder or aircraft :)

In epic terms though I don't think you'll need to change much as most of the new releases look like new elites and characters which are lost on 6mm.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:00 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Just been perusing the new DA gear on GW website and the following things look like they could be possible inclusions. I have not yet read the codex so take these ideas with a grain of salt....

Nephilim interceptor Fighter - as part of the 1/3 army restriction. This means the DA optional second Hunter could be removed.

Ravenwing Dark Talon fighter(ground attack?) - Seeing as GW are selling an army deal with 2 of these plus various Raven Wing detachments I would think these fighters might see a "X only allowed if Ravenwing formation is first purchased" restriction in the army list. 2 per squadron.

Ravenwing formation - Again as another box deal is pretty much the following:
2x bike units
2x "ugly-ass new DA" TMLand Speeder types :D (could just use Tornados though IMO)
1x Jetbike unit and/or Attack bike unit
and optional 1x command unit of jetbikes (Sammael's chosen blah blah etc).

I could see the formation changing slightly from the current Compendium version 2.1 RW Attack formation: It has 4 bikes, 2 Tornados and 2 Attack bikes. The price could also be reduced for points savings if you just have 2 of each type = 6 units not 8 (of original).

Jetbikes with plasma guns.

Deathwing Terminators - DW command unit (hero type) addition to a DW formation? Include Plasma cannon termies as basic instead of Assault Cannons?

Plasma weaponry - Also, I've been thinking the way to get around plasma weaponry being slow is perhaps reduce any given number of shots per unit (e.g.given there may be 2 troopers with a cannon each per unit etc) to a minimum. Could they go up 1 pip per unit to hit instead due to this? It makes them hit harder but reduces their number of shooting dice...

A special rule for DA plasma could work but isn't the preferred way really. Any thoughts?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
My Codex should arrive this week. Then i will know more.

Interesting thing: Tactical Squads can take one heavy weapon even if they are only 5 strong. Codex Space Mariens have to upgrade to a full 10-man Squad in order to take a heavy weapon.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:29 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yeah I don't know if that is super necessary at Epic level, especially as all tac stands get one anyway


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Codex ist here :)

Some proposed stats for then ew units after a quick skim. I will read the Codex thoutoughly if i can come upo with stats fpr Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Black Knights:

Dark Angels Land Speeder Vengeans
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Light Vehicle 35cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Plasma Storm Battery 15cm MW4+

Notes: Skimmer

Dark Angels Land Speeder Darkshroud
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Light Vehicle 35cm 4+ 6+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Assault Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+

Notes: Inspiring,Invulnerable Save, Skimmer, Scout

Dark Angels Ravenwing Darktalon
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Hurricane Bolters (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attack (+1), Fixed Forward Arc
Rift Cannon 15cm AP5+ Disrupt Fixed Forward Arc

Notes: Hover Mode

Dark Angels Nephilim Jetfighter
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Avenger Mega-bolter 45cm 2 x AP5+/AT6+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Twin heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc
Darksword Missiles 30cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward Arc

Ravenwing Attack Squadron is still 3-6 Bikes + Attack Bike + Land Speeder (any configuration)
Ravenwing Support Squadron is still 1-4 Land Speeders (any configuration)
"any configuration" excludes the Vengeance and Darkshroud variants.
Ravenwing Bikes have "Scout". Land Speeders don't.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Last edited by BlackLegion on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:23 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Intruiging stats, but I am slightly confused here.

If the new Landspeeder variants are excluded from the DA formations, why have the stats for them?
And if they are to be included, how should this be done (and what cost), as both are significantly better than the current Landspeeders.

I am also slightly confused by the DarkTalon stats - is this a Fighter aircraft or a skimmer?
The notes include "Hover mode" which is a new one on me - are you suggesting allowing the unit to be both Fighter and also a ground unit by 'hovering' rather than landing? If so, this might need a little more thought
  • Why restrict FF with the F. F. arc (it ought to be able to spin easily while hovering),
  • It should not be able to contest objectives (hovering cannot easily be sustained)

The Nephilim Jetfighter seems a bit over-powered, even if it is apparently unarmoured. So Perhaps the following modifications would be appropriate
  • Reduce the Avenger Mega bolter to 30 cm (generally bolters are restricted to 30cm in the air)
  • Increase the Darksword Missiles to 45cm and remove AA4+ (Missiles go further than bullets, and 3xAA on a single aircraft is significantly better than the TBolt and rather excessive)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:40 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Not excluded from the formations. Excluded fromthe Wh40k Squads/Squadrons. Tehy are independend units like any other Vehicle.

For Epic i see them as upgrade for existing formations.

The Dark Talon is an aircraft but can switch to be a Skimmer.
And i forgot to add the armour values to the aircrafts....I will edit this.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [NetEA]Dark Angels
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Ok, on the Land Speeders, the Vengeance is a lot better than the normal one, so I would suggest 60 points each or 300 for 5x units.
The Darkshroud must be limited to 1x unit per formation as some form of leader; having 4x units would confer 4+ in an assault which would be ridiculous. Also its cost should be around 100 points (as it effectively contains a 'leader').

Not sure about having an aircraft that 'hovers' and becomes a skimmer. I think I may understand the principles, but it is potentially bending the current rule mechanics a little. For example, if it cannot land (which I agree with), then we should state that it *must* disengage at the end of the turn. Also, perhaps it should always operate in a "popped-up" mode while on the table. And I am sure there are other aspects that need to be ironed out - for example, I suspect that this formation is actually too small to actually win many assaults - and it cannot be combined with other formations under the current rules.

OTOH you might consider adding this as an upgrade to a THawk, where it then acts as a fighter 'escort' and also a 'gunship' in the assault . . . . . (but this would also need lots of thought. Eg if combined with a THawk, then the entire formation would be forced to disengage - or the fighters could become detatched and lost - or . . . .)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 333 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 23  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net