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Thunderhawk Transporter
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:05 pm 
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Well the point was why it has worse save since it obviously isn't based on 40k stats. Again 40k is not a holy tome to be followed without deviation, but a guide to use to get E:A stats.


*Snipped some now-unnessesary analysis*

That's fine... but based on that argument, you should be arriving at a vehicle that is 2DC with RA5+

Why are you arriving at 3DC?

Extra DC is generally accorded to vehicles that are larger... but the Thunderhawk Transporter is identical in size to the Thunderhawk Gunship.

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Soren
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:06 pm 
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Other possibility: make their defence mounts AA only (or worse against ground targets).

So you can keep the 4+RA and they are not suitable as bomber.

This indicates that they are not used for really hot drop like an Air assault but have limited self defence.

I really would screw on the weapons and keep 4+RA. They may be resilient but not suited for combat. Think that would be a better option.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:35 pm 
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I'd be happy to see all t-hawks with 5+RA and 2DC, and infact it could be the best aircraft armour available just as 4+RA is for ground troops. At least it would make the player think twice before flying in the middle of six hydras or fire storms as there would be some other way to drop them than crit on that single unsaved hit..

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:39 pm 
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I have 2DC with 5+RA


Then I am perplexed, and think your stats are at least partially justifiable based on your 'battlefield vulnerability' justification.

Sorry, for some reason I was under the misapprehension that you were arguing for a DC increase as well... I'm surprised you didn't contradict me in the Templars thread (Where in two or three posts I decried your heinous 3DC proposal).

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Soren
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:59 pm 
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Crabowl: For sure there is no discussion about the standard Thawk. 4+RA is appropriate and there is no need to change working things just to change. Thwaks are designed to get into the thick of combat and I see no reason to change this (Critical is evil enough for loosing 600+ pts)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:05 pm 
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I've always had 2DC and thought that people would read them before commenting.


I have a firm memory of reading your first Scions list and seeing 3DC in there... wonderful how the memory works isn't it?

Apparently we both need to read each other's texts more closely... every time the THT has come up for many months I've been saying something to the tune of: 'Well, Hena's 3DC proposal isn't justifiable...'

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:46 pm 
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Well current stats are:
Thunderhawk Gunship: 2DC 4+RA
Thunderhawk Transporter: 2DC 5+RA

From the WH40k stats both Thunderhawks are flying Dreadnought if you look at the armour profile (12/12/10) and 3DC. IF the exposed wings and engines of the Transporter would make him more vulnerable to shooting, then it's Wh40k stats would have a worser profile than the Gunship...which it hasn't.

So why 3DC instead of 2DC? Ok it is Epic so all War Engine Aircrafts would have vewer DC than in Wh40k.

But i realy see no justification why the armour profile should be different.
For BOTHThunderhawks it should be either 4+ (same as Dreadnought, reasons mentioned above) or 5+RA to represent the heat absorbing Ceramite Shielding.

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Kleomenes
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:13 pm 
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Is it not at least possible that its 40k that has it wrong? Its a set of abstract game rules. Incredibly abstract now, in fact (or is a terminator really as fast moving as a termagant - oh no wait termagants randomy go 17% - 100% faster in a given time frame for no reason! Just like eldar).

40ks value as an interprative source is limited to being one of the sources used, not the determinative factor. ESPECIALLY stats from apocalypse or forgeworld, which are much more broad brush.

IMO We should match epic to the fluff, not the 40k rules. Then we dont risk breaking the game. The difficulties of getting TH transporters cheap enough and distinct enough from landers is a case in point

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transporter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:08 pm 
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(Hena @ Mar. 14 2008,06:43)
QUOTE
Edit: Just to make sure we are all on the same page with regards to stats. My suggestion of this, as stands in the Scions of Iron list:

Thunderhawk Transporter
Type/ Speed/ Armour/ Close?Combat/ Firefight
War?Engine/ Bomber/ 5+/ 6+/ 5+
Weapon/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
2?x?Heavy?Bolter Defence Mounts/ 15cm/ AP4+ AA4+/ -
Damage?Capacity?2.?Critical?Hit?Effect:?The Thunderhawk Transporters's control surfaces? are damaged. The pilot loses control and the Thunderhawk Transport crashes to the ground destroying all on board.
Notes: Planetfall, Reinforced Armour. Transport (may carry two from the following units: Rhino, Razorback, Hunter, Predator, Vindicator, Whirlwind or one Land Raider, plus any infantry which are carried in any transported vehicle).

I don't like some aspects of this. I still stand by the stats I posted in that original thread.

- It has two twinlinked heavy bolters on each side. Any reason we can't represent them in-game?

- I'm still not seeing any reason to make it 5+RA save. If anything, transporters are just as tough due to their decoy launchers.

What was wrong with the originally suggested stats in that thread (Ragnarok was the one to come up with them, I believe). It matches the model/background/40K rules the best.
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