Tactical Command
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Monoliths and other such matters
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=9319		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  zombocom [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters
I'm a relatively new necron player, but a fairly experienced epic player, and I have some major concerns about the list, particularly in regards to the monolith.

It's simply too effectice, particularly against "horde" armies.

I've been playing some games, and it just seems all too easy to surround a unit by teleporting 4 or so monoliths around it and just wiping the floor with the formation with supporting fire. There seems to be very little the opponent can do to counter this, particularly on the first turn.

Surely there needs to be some limitation on the number of extra firefight attacks the monolith gets? Maybe one for every two or three units, or a maximum of 5 or 6 attacks or something?

I played a game today where from my four monoliths I got a combined total of 52 extra attacks in a single firefight.

Currently they're just much too powerful, and leave a sour taste in my mouth (especially since I've spent ages scratchbuilding them).

The other main issue I have is with the phase out rules. These work well for infantry, because there is a down side to them, which is that you lose the chance to rally and bring back dead bases unless you marshall in the next turn.

However, for monoliths, phasing out is a major advantage. Often monoliths will find themselves out of position after a combined assault, as they will have wiped out a whole section of the army. I then find myself hoping that they get shot at and broken, just so they can teleport in somewhere more useful.

There seems to be no real downside to phasing out for monoliths, in fact it is a major upside, allowing you to redeploy them as neccesary, often each turn. This really doesn't make much sense.

Perhaps they should gain some penalty to activation rolls each time they phase out? Or maybe they should even phase out after teleporting units are placed, rather than in the end phase, thus forcing them to spend a whole turn off the board rather than immediately teleporting back on wherever they wish, or perhaps they should need to take a rally test (at -2 for being broken) in order to teleport back on.

Either way, something needs to be done, and the unit is currently in need of some serious alteration. They are absolutely central to the success of the army, and that is the way it should be, but they shouldn't be so easy to use.

I think I'm going to start playtesting them with a maximum of 6 attacks in firefights, and work from there. I'll report back how it goes, but any input would be gratefully accepted.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(Hena @ Apr. 28 2007,05:27)
QUOTE
Do note however that you can only target the support fire to those that are directly engaged in the assault. So you cannot get +1 EA for those units that are not within 15cm of the attacking formation. With Necrons and Monoliths, this is important to remember.

Since one of his games yesterday was against me, I can tell you that in that massive firefight, every unit was directly engaged.

In essence, I think he's right, Monoliths are incredibly overpowered for their cost in their current incarnation.

He ended up apply about 25-ish hits in the firefight from four monoliths, and then did it again the following turn to another formation.

His winning the strategy roll on both turns meant there was nothing I could do to stop these insanely massive engagements.

And since I was SR2, he was likely to win it most of the time anyway...
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 28 2007,08:54)
QUOTE
Since one of his games yesterday was against me, I can tell you that in that massive firefight, every unit was directly engaged.

Can you post the army lists of the Necron and Imperial forces involved in this fight?
Author:  Hojyn [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters
I thought it was more or less agreed that Monoliths should be limited to a fixed number of extra attacks (+6 extra attacks, iirc) ?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters
My armylist was :

Death Korps 1.9

HQ Infantry Company (20 infantry with SC)
    - Attached 3x Thudd Guns
Infantry Company (20 infantry)
    - 2x Gorgons
    - Attached 3x Hellhounds
Death Rider Company (12 rough riders)

3x Basilisks
3x Manticores
3x Heavy AA guns
3x Medusas
1x Super-Heavy Tank (Stormsword)
6x Leman Russ (Two with Destroyer Upgrade)

Think that was it, 3000pts.



I'm sure Zombocom will post his list later.
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 28 2007,15:28)
QUOTE
Death Rider Company (12 rough riders)

Wow! ?With that many Rough Riders you could deny practically your entire deployment zone as a place to teleport Monoliths into and only expose the Rough Riders to attack.

Any pics of the tables/deployments?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters
Death Rider Companies don't have scout, partially in order to prevent such a thing. :)

Didn't take any pics sorry.
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 28 2007,15:57)
QUOTE
Death Rider Companies don't have scout, partially in order to prevent such a thing. :)

Didn't take any pics sorry.

Both those facts suck!  *laugh*
Author:  corey3750 [ Fri May 11, 2007 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(Hojyn @ Apr. 29 2007,10:16)
QUOTE
I thought it was more or less agreed that Monoliths should be limited to a fixed number of extra attacks (+6 extra attacks, iirc) ?

Yes, there a Cap on Monolith for the new list version.  And while I don't have the file at hand, I do believe that 6 was the number.
Author:  fbruntz [ Sat May 12, 2007 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(corey3750 @ May 11 2007,17:49)
QUOTE
Yes, there a Cap on Monolith for the new list version. ?And while I don't have the file at hand, I do believe that 6 was the number.

Welcome back Corey! :)

And where is the new version of the list?  :p
Author:  corey3750 [ Sun May 13, 2007 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters
I attempted to attactch it here, but it's too damn big.

If anyone wants a copy, drop me an email at corey3750@yahoo.com and I'll shoot one to you.  I'll also send it over to Hena to be prettified.

Please note: ?This is mostly what I've rebuilt, since I lost my notes, so if it needs any other... adjustments don't hesitate to remind me. :)
Author:  Pulsar [ Sun May 13, 2007 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters

(Hena @ May 13 2007,22:29)
QUOTE
Ok, I've uploaded the new 4.2 list to my website.

thanks Hena :)
Author:  Moscovian [ Sun May 13, 2007 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Monoliths and other such matters
Thanks, Hena, for hosting the list.

Thanks, Corey, for the updated list and the nice tribute. :)   I'll be playing this coming up Friday with the Necron and you can be darned sure that there will be pics of the Warbarque in action.  I'll post and let everyone know what the list feels like with the changes.

I'm still a little concerned with the Obelisks having scout, but with the Monoliths being capped, perhaps that is all that will be needed to bring that formation back into balance.  It's just going to take playtesting, playtesting, and more playtesting.  Darn!  :;):
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