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[BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts

 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Hi,

I played a 3000-point game last Sunday with my Necrons against Flogus' Ecomarines. Here's the report.

ARMY LISTS

NECRONS

- Phalanx 1 (+1 Pariah)
- Phalanx 2 (+1 Pariah)
- Phalanx 3 (+1 Pariah)

- Eques 1 (6 Destroyers incl. 1 Lord)
- Eques 2 (6 Heavy Destroyers incl. 1 Lord)
- Monolith (+1 Obelisk)
- Monolith (+1 Obelisk)
- Monolith (+1 Obelisk)
- Monolith (+1 Obelisk)

- Pylon
- Abattoir (BTS goal)

-------------------------------

SPACE MARINES

- Tactical 1 (+ Rhinos)
- Tactical 2 (+ Rhinos)

- Terminators
- Terminators + Chaplain
- Terminators + Supreme Commander (BTS goal)

- Whirlwinds
- Land Speeders

- Thunderhawk
- Devastators
- Devastators

-------------------------------

We used the following experimental rules:

- Monoliths max number of extra attacks set at +6.
- Experimental teleportation procedure (see HERE for the details).

I'll post the full report later... as soon as Flogus sends me the pictures. ?:)






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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:18 am 
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OK, got the pictures now. ?:)

DEPLOYMENT



For this battle, I wanted to follow my own advice concerning the Abattoir : never leave it alone on the first turn. My first thought was to take a Tomb Complex and to garrison two Phalanxes, but this is hardly an efficient tactic, I think. The Phalanxes are an assault formation and can't shoot (except at very short range). Since they are also quite slow, garrisoned Phalanxes are consequently easily avoidable and not a real threat.
With this in mind, I decided to take two Eques formations as bodyguards for my Abattoir in order to force Flogus to choose between the slow CC beast or the fast-moving and versatile skimmers. We were playing "blind" this time, so I didn't know I would face Space Marines and the only artillery my ?Abattoir would have to conted with would be a Whirlwind formation. But hey, I still think it's a sound plan and will probably try it again next time.



Flogus kept his 3 Terminator formations and his Thunderhawk in reserve and deployed one Tactical and the Whirlwinds behind a screen of Land Speeders (on Overwatch). The other Tactical formation was deployed alone on his left flank, probably as a bait in the hopes of cornering part of my army far from his main force and from any objectives.







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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:07 am 
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TURN 1

Teleportation phase

Using our experimental rules, Flogus let me choose first whether or not to teleport one of my formations. I had five teleporting formations to his three, so I designated a Monolith and said it wouldn't teleport this turn. It then went like this :

- Terminators with SC > pass
- Monolith > passes
- Terminators with Chaplain > pass
- Monolith > teleports on Flogus' left flank, in a position to assault the "bait" (Tactical formation) (0 BM)
- Terminators > teleport in front of the Tacticals (2 BM), screening them from the Monolith
- Monolith > teleports on the other side of the Tacticals (0 BM)
- Pylon > teleports behind the wood located between the two Marine objectives (no line of sight on anything, but in cover and positioned so as to deter Flogus from bringing his Thunderhawk in)



Strategy roll

Necrons won.

Action Phase

1. Phalanx 1 came out of a Monolith and declared an assault on the Terminators. I could have included the Tacticals in the assault, and almost did so, but I didn't want to give them the opportunity to leave their Rhinos and lend support to the Terminators. My Necron Warriors (supported by the Monolith) made short work of the Terminators, who died to the last man (killing 3 stands).



2. That same Monolith then assaulted the Tacticals (Tactical 1), who at last came out of their Rhinos. Due to the experimental rules, the Monolith only got 6 extra attacks instead of 9. 4 Tacticals and the Obelisk were destroyed, and the Monolith lost the assault. Having lent their support to the losing side, Phalanx 1 received another BM and broke. This actually was rather good, since it meant they would phase out at the end of the turn. Tactical 1 broke too.

3. Tactical 2 doubled and fired on the other Monolith, causing no damage but breaking it, which gave it the opportunity to move around Tactical 2 towards the Land Speeders.
4. The Land Speeders, determined to finish it off, moved and fired at the broken Monolith, but only managed to score 1 hit, which was promptly saved.

5. The Necrons' reply was devastating : Phalanx 2 came though the portal and assaulted the Land Speeders, killing all but one and losing only 2 Warriors.



6. The Whirlwinds then Sustained Fire on Phalanx 2 and the Monolith and managed to kill 2 Warriors and the Necron Lord, more than enough to break Phalanx 2.

I then made three consecutive mistakes. ?:p

7. Flogus having no activations left, I could move around as I pleased. Eques 2 (Heavy Destroyers) doubled and tried to screen the Pylon from the incoming Terminator assault next turn. Thinking for some reason that Destroyers were AV, I left them out of the woods to avoid a dangerous terrain test... Doing so meant my "screen" was no screen at all, since the Terminators could teleport in the woods next turn.
8. Eques 1 Marched along the edge of the table, towards the Marine blitz and the Whirlwind. Yes, they Marched... which is illegal for Necrons. I only realised this after the end of the game, but fortunately we both agreed this didn't have any effect on the game, since Eques 2 (who launched an assault but hardly moved at all in Turn 2) could have done the same thing had they only Doubled.
9. Finally, my Abattoir Marched too. Again, this didn't give any advantage to the Necrons, since the Abattoir moved back towards the Necrons' edge of the table in the following turns. Actually, it was even beneficial to the Marines, since my Abattoir ended up too far from the action in Turn 2. Serves me well... ?:p

End of turn 1

Broken Necrons phased out.
The surviving Land Speeder failed to rally.







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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:07 am 
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TURN 2

Teleportation phase

Again, Flogus chose to let me go first. I had 3 Monoliths in reserve and he had two Terminator formations.

- Monolith > passes
- Terminators with Chaplain > teleport in the woods near the Pylon (0 BM)



- Monolith > teleports near the Whirlwinds (0 BM)
- Terminators with SC > teleport near the Whirlwinds (1 BM)
- Monolith > teleports near Tactical 2



Strategy roll

Space Marines won.

Action phase

1. The Terminators with Chaplain closed on the Pylon and assaulted it... 7 hits (including several MW hits)... 7 saves ! Thank you Living Metal. :cool: But in spite of the support from the Heavy Destroyers, the Marines won and broke the Pylon, which was all that Flogus needed.
2. Now the the AA threat had been neutralised, the Thunderhawk could come in at last. And come in it did, unloading its Devastators and blasting the Heavy Destroyers (to the last man... errr, machine) through an assault.



3. Well, the Marines had it good near my Blitz, but their position was rather desperate on the other side of the table. Phalanx 3 came through the portal of the Monolith closest to the Whirlwinds and launched an assault on the Space Marine tanks. Thanks to the support of the Terminators, 3 Necrons "died", but all the Whirlwinds were destroyed.
4. Eques 1 then assaulted the Terminators (being close enough, they didn't have to move, which compensated for my illegal move of the first turn). Outnumbered and still reeling from the side-effects of the teleportation, they were annihilited by the Necron skimmers. That's 1 point (BTS) for the Necrons!  :D

5. The survivors of Tactical 1 doubled and fired on the Abattoir, placing 1 BM on it.
6. Tactical 2 failed its activation roll (funny how this always happens just after the death of your SC), but managed to kill the Necron Lord of Phalanx 3, breaking the Necron formation.

7. The Monolith closest to the Whirlwinds doubled towards Tactical 2 and fired on the Marines. No casualties, but 1 BM.
8. Phalanx 2 then came through the portal and Marshalled, going back to full force and positioning itself in a good position to support the incoming assault.
9. The Monolith closest to Tactical 2 declared an assault on the Marines. Due to the experimental rules, it only got +6 EA instead of +9, and the supporting Monolith only got +6 EA instead of +7. This, and the supporting fire of Phalanx 2, was still more than enough to win the assault, even though the assaulting Monolith was broken.
10. Humming with power, the Abattoir turned its tentacles towards the Terminators with Chaplain in the nearby woods... and rolled a 1!!! My evil plans for world domination are again thwarted by a failed activation roll. Stupid Blast Marker!!!  :angry:  :p



So, no assault for the Abattoir this turn, but a single move towards its prey.

End of turn 2

Tactical 2 and the Land Speeder rallied, the Pylon didn't.



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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:53 am 
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TURN 3

Teleportation phase

Flogus has no teleporting units left. I teleported my 3 remaining Monoliths between the Devastators and my Blitz (0 BM in total).

Strategy roll

Space Marines won.

Action phase

1. One of the Devastator squad assaulted a Monolith (hoping to win in order to put 1 BM for being on the losing side on the other two supporting Monoliths, which would be enough to break them), but after two rounds of combat, the Marines were wiped out.
2. The other Dev squad Sustained Fire on the same Monolith, but all three hits were saved.

3. At last, the Abattoir was able to activate and came crashing through the woods to kill the Terminators. After two rounds of combat again, it had "eaten" them all and had lost 2 DC. Good boy. ?:)



4. Phalanx 2 assaulted Tactical 1 and won, breaking it.

5. Tactical 2 Sustained Fire on Phalanx 3.

6. Phalanx 1 came through a Monolith near the Necron Brlitz and Marshalled (+2 Necrons).
7. That same Monolith then assaulted the remaining Devastator formation, killing them all with the support of Phalanx 1.

8. The lone Land Speeder ?moved and fired at a Monolith... and destroyed it! 1 Monolith down after 3 turns, only 3 to go! ?:p

9. One other Monolith doubled and fired at the Land Speeder breaking it and earning me the "They Shall Not Pass" point.

10. The Thunderhawk killed two Destroyers near the Marine Blitz, but...

11. ... the 4 remaining Destroyers stretched to control both the Blitz and the objective noted "Necron Obj 2" on the first pic.
12. Finally, Phalanx 2 assaulted Tactical 2, but was soundly beaten by the Marines. This, however, did not prevent the Necrons from winning.

End of turn 3

Necrons 4 (BTS, Blitz, Take & Hold, They Shall Not Pass)
Marines 0






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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:18 pm 
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AFTER ACTION REPORT

Again, a very pleasant game, thanks in part to our experimental teleportation rules. They did a lot for the overall balance of the game.

That said, the Marines are at an obvious disavantage when facing the Necrons, who are better equiped for assault in almost every respect. But it is more a question of the Marines being too weak than the Necrons being too strong, I think. However, the Necrons really have lots of benefits. Being able to go back to full forc and/or always assaulting with no BM AND with a 40 points Inspiringcharacter when coming through a portal is really good, perhaps a bit too good for the cost. I'd suggest upping the Phalanx to 250 points and the Pariah to 50 points.

The +6 cap on extra attacks for the Monolith worked well and felt very appropriate. It feels much more balanced that way and worth 75 points, but not more.

Heavy Destroyers either need to be modified or to cost less than the regular Destroyers. For the same price, Destroyers have a better FF value AND more versatility (they can fire both on AT and AV targets). I'm OK with FF4+ for the Heavies, but perhaps AT4+/AP6+ would help to compensate. They would still be weaker than the regular Destroyers, though...

The Abattoir... well, you all know my thoughts on the subject. Sure, it destroyed a whole Terminator formation with a Chaplain, but that's all it did. A 750 points formation destroyed a 375 points formation. No surprise here. Again, I suggest to do something about it.






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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:20 pm 
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Great report and great pictures!


(Hojyn @ Nov. 14 2006,11:18)
QUOTE
Heavy Destroyers either need to be modified or to cost less than the regular Destroyers. For the same price, Destroyers have a better FF value AND more versatility (they can fire both on AT and AV targets). I'm OK with FF4+ for the Heavies, but perhaps AT4+/AP6+ would help to compensate. They would still be weaker than the regular Destroyers, though...

Hmmm... what's kind of funny is that regular Destroyers are almost never seen in local play here because the potential higher value of being able to hit multiple AV targets more reliably is seen as worth more than versitility, as there are so many other Necron units that can take out INF targets.

Heavy Destroyers are usually used as "support" formations, moving up to blow away Battlewagons/Chimeras/Rhinos and then supporting the inevitable assault.

As to you not positioning them in the woods Hojyn, as they are mounted infantry, they would have had to make dangerous terrain tests if they ended in the trees.





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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:51 pm 
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(Hojyn @ Nov. 14 2006,11:18)
QUOTE
However, the Necrons really have lots of benefits. Being able to go back to full forc and/or always assaulting with no BM AND with a 40 points Charismatic character when coming through a portal is really good, perhaps a bit too good for the cost. I'd suggest upping the Phalanx to 250 points and the Pariah to 50 points.

I do not agree on that point. Upgrades for Phalanxes are already very expensive : if you up the cost of Phalanxes and Pariahs, Immortals and other Wraiths will disappear...

I'll soon post a report about Necrons after the tournament of Lyon where many players found the v4.10 Necron list quite balanced (I did not play the Obelisks as scouts). I would only suggest that the Monoliths should be limited to +6 attacks max.

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:20 pm 
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(fbruntz @ Nov. 14 2006,13:51)
QUOTE
I do not agree on that point. Upgrades for Phalanxes are already very expensive : if you up the cost of Phalanxes and Pariahs, Immortals and other Wraiths will disappear...

Still, don't you think it's somehow too easy for the Necrons to get +3 to the combat result (+1 for Inspiring, +2 for having no BM and less than the opponent) ? AND it's very easy for them to set up an assault anywhere on the table, with lots of support to boot. AND they can repair fallen troops.

Sure, they have drawbacks to compensate for this (weak mobility, no March, hardly any firepower worth mentioning, etc.), but still... Compare this to the Marines, who are described as the best assault troops in the galaxy, but have to work hard for a succesfull combined assault.

I'm not saying the list is not balanced. It is, no doubt about that. But it is perhaps a bit too strong in assault for the relatively low cost of the main formation, and some costs might need to be adjusted.

Currently, Pariahs are a no-brainer. Why take an Immortal when you can have a much better unit for the same cost? It's a "0-1 per formation" unit, but it still is a no-brainer and should IMO cost more than 40 points, because cheap Pariahs are exactly the sort of thing that could make Immortals and Wraiths disappear.

Hence my suggestion of 250 for the Phalanx and 50 for the Pariah.

On the other hand, I'm not sure Eques formations are really worth 350 points. That's really a lot for a relatively fragile formation. Powerful yes, but very easily broken.






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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:22 pm 
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(Chroma @ Nov. 14 2006,13:20)
QUOTE
Hmmm... what's kind of funny is that regular Destroyers are almost never seen in local play here because the potential higher value of being able to hit multiple AV targets more reliably is seen as worth more than versitility, as there are so many other Necron units that can take out INF targets.

Hmm... that's quite true, and Flogus actually pretty much said the same thing when I asked his opinion on the subject.

You're probably both right, even though I can't help but feel that Heavy Destroyers are underpowered when compared to regular Destroyers. Probably because I rarely do any shooting with my Necrons.  :)

As to you not positioning them in the woods Hojyn, as they are mounted infantry, they would have had to make dangerous terrain tests if they ended in the trees.


Right. So that's what Mounted does.  :p  I keep forgetting Destroyers have this ability, and to be honest I never remember its effects. Now where's that rulebook...


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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:31 pm 
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@Hoyjn,

First off, have I ever told you how cool your Abbattoir is? It is the coolest. I'm more of an Aeonic Orb kind of guy, but if I was going to ever build an Abbattoir, guess whose it would look like? Did I say it was cool looking?

Right, moving on. I think you are on to something with the Monolith attack restriction and don't think too many people would object to it. I like the effect because it keeps a cost increase to the Monolith from being necessary.

Teleportation Rules: I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but I think they are too fiddly. That's just my initial impression, but I think it would be better to mark (or note) which formations are teleporting and reveal them all at once rather than drag out the process.

However, I shall reflect on this more...

BTW, love the Abbattoir!   :cool:

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:06 am 
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(Honda @ Nov. 14 2006,18:31)
QUOTE
First off, have I ever told you how cool your Abbattoir is? It is the coolest. I'm more of an Aeonic Orb kind of guy, but if I was going to ever build an Abbattoir, guess whose it would look like? Did I say it was cool looking?

Please stop, you're making me blush.  :)  Thanks a lot, though. To be honest, I kind of like it too. I tend too "steal" people's ideas a lot, but this one really is my baby.  :cool:

Teleportation Rules: I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but I think they are too fiddly.


Yeah, I see what you mean. I thougt so too when Flogus explained them to me (they're more his idea than mine, really), but they are actually very easy too use, quite fast and add a lot to the game.

I would only change one thing: roll for BM after all formations have been teleported, as suggested by Moscovian on the SG forum.


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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:18 pm 
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(fbruntz @ Nov. 14 2006,13:51)
QUOTE
I do not agree on that point. Upgrades for Phalanxes are already very expensive : if you up the cost of Phalanxes and Pariahs, Immortals and other Wraiths will disappear...

Still, don't you think it's somehow too easy for the Necrons to get +3 to the combat result (+1 for charismatic, +2 for having no BM and less than the opponent) ? AND it's very easy for them to set up an assault anywhere on the table, with lots of support to boot. AND they can repair fallen troops.

Sure, they have drawbacks to compensate for this (weak mobility, no March, hardly any firepower worth mentioning, etc.), but still... Compare this to the Marines, who are described as the best assault troops in the galaxy, but have to work hard for a succesfull combined assault.


Of course, if you compare Necrons to Space Marines they are too much powerfull... But wait a minute! Every army is too much powerfull compared to the Space Marines!  :laugh:
Necron Phalanxes can easily gain the +3 combat result (+1 for charismatic, +2 for having no BM and less than the opponent) but they will hardly get the bonus for being more numerous (against Orks, Imperial Guard, Cultists, Black Legion or Tyranid for example) and must only use classical attacks (no MW, no First Strike, etc.). In addition, Pariahs are very expensive for the use you can make of them (they "won't be back" so you will only use them as charismatic and FF3+, dropping their MW extra-attack 3+).
The high cost of the upgrades balance the relative low cost of the basic formation.
Back to the Space Marines. I do think that an Assault formation + Charismatic Character (225 points, four 3+ attacks + one MW 3+ attack) will not be ridiculous in front of a Phalanx + Pariahs (265 points, four 5+ attacks + two 4+ attacks + one MW5+ attack + one 3+ attack + one MW3+ attack).

Currently, Pariah are a no-brainer. Why take an Immortal when you can have a much better unit for the same cost? It's a "0-1 per formation" unit, but it still is a no-brainer and should IMO cost more than 40 points, and THAT'S is the sort of thing that could make Immortals and Wraiths disappear.

Even with a high cost Pariahs will stay a must have because of the "charismatic" competence. So you'll pay for it but you'll not have enough budget to pay Immortals or Wraiths updates... If you want Immortals to match with Pariahs, you must drop the Charismatic option.

About simple Phalanxes (without Pariahs) in garrison. I used two of them in my army during the Lyon event and they worked very well. Thanks to them the Abattoir was not the main (and only) target for my opponent. In overwatch, even with a 15cm range, they will protect an objective. They will be hard to destroy thanks to the "I'll be back" rule.

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Necrons vs. Space Marines - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:00 pm 
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(fbruntz @ Nov. 15 2006,12:18)
QUOTE
The high cost of the upgrades balance the relative low cost of the basic formation.

Fran?ois, do you realise the Pariah and Immortals are actually cheap ?

- The basic Necron Warrior costs (225-25)/6 = 33 points

- The Immortal has better CC, better FF, better firepower and costs only 40 points

- The Pariah has an even better CC value, a CCMW attack and Inspiring for only 40 points too! Its only drawback is that it's not Necron.

Even with a high cost Pariahs will stay a must have because of the "charismatic" competence. So you'll pay for it but you'll not have enough budget to pay Immortals or Wraiths updates... If you want Immortals to match with Pariahs, you must drop the Charismatic option.


Of course they will be a must-have, but at least at 50 points it leaves some room for the Immortal to exist. And you reasoning is a bit twisted: you're saying "the Pariah is good anyway so let's make it cheaper." ?:p






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