Just curious on the Vault stat line seems a bit over priced and/or under powered. The warbarque does not have the greatest weaponry but it has a portal. The vault has no portal and it's ponderous. Compairing the stats to something similar like the chaos decimator, the decimator has about equivelant fire power slightly worse armour because of living metal at 2/3 the price. I want to give it a shot and am working on a nice proxy but am worried about it underperforming.

Don't get me wrong I know the army needs a bunch of reworking to make it more enjoyable for both players from the previous list but I'm worried about it losing all its competitiveness.

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Toronto Wargaming Group

I see this as a good thing for two reasons. It helps us keep the price down. I don't think their primary role should be intercepting (this goes for the doom scythes as well) based on the fluff. The shortend range helps inforce this. We as the players should have to think twice about using them for intercept.

I agree with you that they probably don't need any price increase. I will keep them at 175 pts. They could perhaps even be lowered to 150pts. But the combination of getting a portal exactly were you want and be able to prep a target is quite powerful so I'll keep them at 175 for now.

It's a maxmum strenght, lowest AP weapon in 40k. This can sometimes be interpreted as a MW attack in epic but also a TK attack. It's description is kind of superlative though.
Basically this made me think more of a TK attack.
(It has a special kind of attack which means it can hit several units in 40k. I thought I was holding back when giving it only one attack. 2x MW is an alternative I guess, but that's better than 1xTK in some ways so not something I want if not a big majority disagrees with me.)

I'm glad to hear this

Indeed it is! I think it's appropriate. There is a playtest list in another thread in this subforum with suggestion for nerfing living metal. I think Ulrik would appreciate more feedback on the proposed changes. I have to say I think they're going to far though. Sure the rule could use a slight nerf. I would take away the part about making TK (X) always into TK(1). I think the epic-uk version were you instead have to take a save against each point inflicted is better. But it is Ulriks call.

Thanks for bringing it up. I actually agree with you. I also compaired it to the Deciever. The two units have quite similar strength of attacks, even though I think the Vault has a slight lead. On the other hand the deciver comes with both Inspiring and Supreme commander for 50 pts less. You comparision to the chaos decimator is also a good one. I think they're similar. I'd say the decimators attack strength is sligthly better with the deadly combination of MW-IC-Barrage and longer ranged attacks. The Vault is better in other regards with LM and increased mobility (teleport).

I have tried to follow the principle that when starting this experimental list stage. Start with higer cost, as it's easier to lower a cost than increasing it during continued development. I think I might have overdone it by quite a bit with the Vault though. The cost should probably be lowered by 50 - 75 pts. Thougths on this?

I will try to make an updated list during the weekend, version 0.3, based on the last weeks discussion and feedback.

Thanks guys (and girls?) for your reports and feedback. I'm glad the list is appreciated and getting played!

Anyway concerning the Death marks. I know they cost quite a lot for just four measly units. I did compare them to pathfinders (eldar alaitoc) when deciding on their price (both are now 200 pts). They are the closest match when it comes to stats at least.
The combination of sniper and teleport is costed quite heavily. As seen in the example of the pathfinders. They cost twice as much as regular eldar rangers, but are almost identical. Teleport and sniper together is very powerful. You have the possibility of putting your troops exactly were you need them. Close to a supreme commander or other valuable character for instance.

The death marks have a somewhat better attack, 1+ initiative, and of course the necron rule. The pathfinders have greater speed (but deathmarks can redeploy via portals), invulnerable save and the army have strategy rating 4 rather than the 2 of necrons.
Death marks with an AP 4+ attack that has a high probability of sustaining (1+ ini) gives you 2 successful hits on average against an infantry unit in cover. 2 hits with -1 to save will result in likely killing most supreme commanders (like you did). This is a powerful ability that I think one should have to pay premium points for.

The most crucial difference between pathfinders and deathmarks is the strategy rating. As the above is much easier to pull of if your opponent don't get to start and be able to move away/kill you. On the other hand necrons have other ways (portals) off getting the death marks exactly were they are needed so I think they should be costed equally (high) as the eldar pathfinders.

I think 175 is better, possibly after more testing it may warrant a further decrease. Also having the fliers lean away from CAPing means that we rely mainly on pylons for AA. Taking fliers and Pylons eats up the 1/3 space allowance pretty quick. Not sure if this is something that necessarily needs to be corrected but definitely factored in when determining costs.



Keep the TK attack its pretty unique. The 15cm range will make it difficult to use well without risk so I wouldn't say its overpowered.


The game was pretty fun actually, first game ever where I had a triple tied combat.



Have to be very careful messing with living armour. if TK attacks got all their extra attacks then Necron war engines would be unbelievably vulnerable against TK weapons compared to all other races war engines as they have no shields.



Granted teleport on a war engine is pretty awesome.



I'd keep it the same points just maybe beef up the main weapon. Say to 6BP disrupt, not a huge boost but makes it more similar to the nurgle plague tower which is DC6 for only 325 points

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Toronto Wargaming Group

Granted, I don't usually use scout snipers so I may need to experiment more with them to utilize them most effectively.

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Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group

Was reading through some fluff when trying to find ideas for what the shard should look like at the center of my Vault.


Maybe their deathray should be AA.

The plan for my Tesseract Vault is to have the shard resemble Mag'ladroth and be removable should I decide to field him as infantry. Will post pictures when it gets closer to completion.

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Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group

Yeah that paragraph speaks in favour of making them better at AA. But making the death ray have AA would make them exceptional even with their short range. And I still don't think that particular weapon is designed to be a air-to-air weapon.

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I have updated the list to version 0.3 attached to the first post. All changes are outlined by being coloured red.

Mostly points adjustments based on our recent discussion.

• I have lowered the cost of the basic phalanxes. Based on my games and your feedback. This is due to increased vulnerability of the portal changes, no phase out and lowered save.
  
• I realised I had priced the overlord at +50 pts. This together with the cost of the Lord (25 pts) makes for a supreme commander costing 75 pts. Most armies pay 100 pts for their supreme commander and I think all initiative 1+ armies should do so. I have also added the possibility of the warbarque to take a Overlord to tie in with the old Raiders list.
  
• Archantrites were lowered by 25 pts. I thought they weren't really worth the 200 pts even if they're fearless. They are able to garrison due to fluff describing them as vanguard creatures. I think it's ok they lack the necron rule after all.
  
• Eques Maniple points cost adjusted in line with the epic-uk list. Having played with them several times (with the raider list) I have thought since quite a long time that they are overcosted. Now with increased vulnerability I thought they should really be lowered as well as the infantry phalanxes.
  
• I have made no changes to the the tesseract vaults stats, but I have lowered the price. I looked at one of my earlier versions before 0.1 I think. I had intended for it to first have a 6BP attack + 4x 4+TK(1), IC. In the pre-release discussion this was seen as to good (and I agree). The price was kind of based on that. It has now been lowered substantially based on that and previous discussion.
  
• Airplanes changed from what was earlier discussed. I have increased the price of the doom scythes and bombers.
  
• The biggest change made however is the addition of the sentry pylons. Stats are per Ulriks version in the Tomb World list thread. Except I took away walker and instead added teleport. Is this OK Ulrik? I can't see those things going through portals and I think it would be unfair. I also can't see how they are supposed to be any good at going through terrain with those small legs.
  This was done since I wanted to increase the AA of the list after nerfing the intercept capabilities of the airplanes. This also means that there is AA available outside of the WE/AC third of the points.

Sentry Pylons are totally untested. Use them, tweak them, just remember that you really are starting from scratch when you're actually testing them!

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- Ulrik

Curious about the lack of teleport on Obelisks. If you don't take the monolith upgrade then the unit can't teleport in?

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Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group

Sorry that's a typo. They should of course have teleport

EDIT: I have updated the file with teleport.

Ok so with Ulriks "blessing" to start tweaking I have removed Living metal and given them just regular reinforced armour like the obelisk. I realised when looking through the 40k rules that they don't actually have the living metal rule in the fall of orpheus book.

This was also added to the mentioned update.

Realized I made another typo in the file that might be confusing. The sentry pylon formation and the big pylon formation can both take the upgade "pylon network"

This upgrade is by misstake called sentry pylons however in the upgrade list.

Posted a batrep to here
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=28204&p=536298#p536298

Thanks Dobbsy I made some comments over in the thread.

In my match against the Tau I tried more conservative tactics, after several defeats at the hands of guard and marines I found I just couldn't be quite as overtly aggressive as I could with the raiders list. I went with smaller infantry units and higher activation counts so I could have as many portals on the board as possible (in this case 6 activations with portals). I was able to keep pressure on him from several fronts and tailor all the engagements to give me considerably better odds of coming out on top. I did have some crazy luck with the RA save rolls on my monolith formations (as seen in the report). I swear they were cast from melted down horse shoes.
The way the Necron list plays all its strengths seem to match the tau weakness almost perfectly at the same time being able to severely mitigate their strengths. This was actually my first win of the (4) games I've played with the new list. Generally really close battles though (except for this one).

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Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group