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Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon AA
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=25769		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ulrik [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon AA
First change is deceptively small: Give Pylons Leader. Purely a mechanical change - Pylons are extremely easy to break, and as they're immobile they're also useless while broken. If they get Leader, they remove both BMs when rallying instead of just one, doubling the effort required to break them again. Thoughts?

Change two: Add a formation of Sentry Pylons, with AA and teleport, to give the Necrons an option for non-WE flak.

Rover Pylons (name changed since they'll have Teleport - suggestions for better names welcome)

Type\Speed\Armour\CC\FF\Notes
AV\10cm\5+\-\5+\Living Metal, Fearless, Teleport, Walker

Weapon\Range\Firepower
Gauss Exterminator\90cm\AT5+/AA5+

Necron Support Formation
Rover Pylon Network: 3 Rover Pylons, 200 points
Author:  Borka [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
1) adding leader to big pylons is something I'm all for.

2) I don't have an opinion on sentry-pylon-adding yet.
Author:  Onyx [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
1 - I'd vote no to Pylons having Leader. This change would make them too powerful.
*edit - if players keep getting their Pylons broken, they should deploy them normally and not teleporting them in. 90cm AA range is crazy good.

2 - Not really in favour of this formation either.

A long time ago, Matt-Shadowlord (a local in Western Australia with many Necron games under his belt) proposed an alternate fire mode for Pylons. In addition to the 1 TK shot @ 90cm, they could instead fire 3 shots at reduced range with no TK (or MW).
This would give them the ability to at least try and nulify massed flyer formations (Orks) and still allow for the threat to reinforced armour transports (sorry for going a bit off topic).
Author:  GlynG [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
I'd like to see some playtests but both sound like good options.
Author:  zombocom [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
Yes to leader, no to the new unit.
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
Onyx wrote:
A long time ago, Matt-Shadowlord (a local in Western Australia with many Necron games under his belt) proposed an alternate fire mode for Pylons. In addition to the 1 TK shot @ 90cm, they could instead fire 3 shots at reduced range with no TK (or MW).
This would give them the ability to at least try and nulify massed flyer formations (Orks) and still allow for the threat to reinforced armour transports (sorry for going a bit off topic).


Not that off-topic :) It's about Necron flak after all.

My experience with pylons has been that they're far too easy to break to worry about wether or not they're an actual threat to enemy aircraft or not.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
If you're going to make major changes, like adding whole new units, why not do it properly and do s "modern neurons" list?
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
Mostly 'cause I think the background for modern neurons suck.

It's not a given that I'll try to add them. Maybe Leader on Pylons is enough, or maybe better flak isn't required at all. But I do think that Sentry Pylons fit the old Necrons, while stuff like the fliers and new vehicles (complete with robot pilots) don't.

Maybe I should take a step back. Instead of thinking of solutions, I first need to decide what is actually the problem. Most of this addresses things I've found to be problems in my own games or those I've watched, but quite a few people have had different experiences.
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
For me the balancing factor for pylons, and the necron list, is that they have great AA against WE but poor vs massed flyers and it is easy to break.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
I'll have a play around with this and see what I come up with.

Leader to Pylons I can take or leave, if they are rallying with 1BM and then being broken again by my opponent first activation it means that they are not hitting some where else.

Roving AV Pylons don't grab me and I feel they fill a hole in the list that doesn't need filling whilst freeing up WE points for other stuff.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
Ulrik wrote:
Mostly 'cause I think the background for modern neurons suck.

The background has barely changed. The only difference I can think of is that now instead of the C'tan being free agents in command of the Necrons, now the Necrons are in control of the C'tan. This actually fits 40k's overarching main theme ("Everything is lesser than once it was" / "The entropy of greatness") that runs through 90% of their armies much better IMO.

On the tabletop itself, the army functions little different to how it used to. The new background has little practical impact on the gameplay.

Quote:
It's not a given that I'll try to add them.

I wouldn't bother, the Raiders list is finished. No need to poke it to any great degree (and adding new units is a great degree).

I can see a good rationale for a new army list - the Raiders list ends up being a "Necrons as they were in the great war against the Eldar" list, and the new army list would represent Necrons as they are in the current 40k timeline. And there is a lot of cool stuff available now.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... tyle=wh40k
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... od2130076a
Look at all that cool!

I'm sure that 3rd party proxies could be found, or conversion guides recommended. It wouldn't be as tough a job as the original Raiders list was to make. You might even find companies will work with your requirements to help you make suitable models that don't break IP rules.
Author:  fredmans [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
I have only played Necrons once, and learned some valuable lessons to boot, but Leader on Pylon remedies one of its few weaknesses. Are Pylons underpowered? My Tyranids (with supreme commander war engine) would beg to differ.

/Fredmans
Author:  MikeT [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
I understand the rational behind the pylon leader change; having used pylons a lot it is frustrating having them rally with 1bm. Still that is a straight upgrade for an army that doesn't really need it.

The rover pylon formation however is a massive upgrade and I would understand any complaints by opponents if I used them.
Author:  Borka [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
Having thought a bit about this I agree with E&C, I think the pylons are better suited for a new list. Raiders is a stable list with approved status, adding a totally new formation is to big a change.
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changes to Raiders: Leader for Pylons, add Sentry Pylon
Fair enough, the Rovers are out.

I still think that Pylons are too easy to break. They hardly fire a shot in my games, but that could be because my opponents always focus on keeping them suppressed. Drawing attention is valuable in itself.
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