Tactical Command
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broken monolith and portal
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=18007		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  lilith [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
In another topic in the battle report section we have a discussion about the problem of a broken monolith formation that can be used as portal. Is a little strange that a bad status (be broken) can be an help to another fomation (30 cm withdraw move can help a phalanx to assault enemy.
Someone the write this possible solution : if a formation use a broken portal it gain a Bm. In my opinion is very correct and can be the solution , your opinion here can be usefull.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
I'm sure withdrawal moves have been used to reposition Monolith portals, but I question the assertion that the free withdrawal move is a substantial benefit.  The flexibility of the Monoliths in terms of teleporting into play usually means the portals are where they need to be moving to position is not usually required.

As far as portal use, being broken is not a hindrance but that's different from it being a benefit.
Author:  Fortis [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
I can think of a few situations where it would be very beneficial.

Suggest you have a scout ZOC screen across the front of your army. The necron player teleports in front of it, assaults it to death. This then means any broken formations of monoliths can go deeper into your formation before they spew out their phalanx.

Second reason might be if you have a multi-monolith formation. Spew out one phallanx, get broken, relocate, spew out another into a different target.

Third if your intended target relocates before you get to spew out your phallanx you can relocate to catch them from being broken.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Being broken in general is a good thing for Necron monoliths, as they can:

- Re-position their portal without needing to spend an activation.
- Phase out at the end of the turn and then very likely teleport somewhere entirely new in the following turn.
Author:  Vaaish [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
I don't think that having a totally unrelated formation being affected by essentially stepping out the door, especially a sentient undead robot of doom fed by unmitigated hatred for all things living is the correct answer. Going back and looking through the 40k necron codex to get a better idea of the fluff and mechanics of the portal systems, I can't find any reason why using the portal would have any affect on the unit outside of helping them repair.

Going from E&C's post, I don't think we can fix the second listed benefit of breaking as a necron without a fundamental reworking of their operation. Off the top of my head the only real thing to do would be remove their phase out rule and force them to exit via portals if they wish to reposition but I feel that removes a good bit of flavor from the necrons.

The first point could be addressed by removing the monoliths ability to perform withdrawal moves when broken to play off their ponderous and massively bulky nature. In essence it would prevent you from repositioning monoliths to your benefit if broken and effectively immobilize them until they are destroyed or rally which could be a good thing or a bad.

With this route I could possibly see abuse with people ZOCing the immobile monoliths and there are probably more things I can't think of right now that definitely make being broken as a necron not a good thing.
Author:  corey3750 [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 25 2010, 09:05 )

Being broken in general is a good thing for Necron monoliths, as they can:

- Re-position their portal without needing to spend an activation.
- Phase out at the end of the turn and then very likely teleport somewhere entirely new in the following turn.

You forgot a certain important qualifier in your second point.

You should have said:

Quote: 

- Phase out at the end of the turn and then very likely teleport somewhere entirely new in the following turn, at the cost of being considered destroyed in the interum, and sacrificing any ability to regenerate while off-board.



As far as the abusiveness of broken monoliths being pushed DEEPER into enemy formations:  

That's a problem with the rules for Withdrawl moves for broken formations, not a problem with the Necrons. I have always said that rule should specifically state that when you withdraw you should be required to move AWAY from the nearest concentration of enemy units, and cannot end your move closer to an an enemy formation than you were.


On a side note:

Repositioning portals without needing to spend an activation is something that happens for Eldar as well when their mobile portals break.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Quote: 

You should have said:

Corey, I was talking about Monoliths, not infantry formations, so "not being able to regenerate" isn't important at all.

As long as it's not turn 3 or 4 (meaning that they can't claim objectives/count as destroyed for VPs), Necron Monoliths generally *want* to become broken.
Author:  Pulsar [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Quote: (corey3750 @ Feb. 24 2010, 16:41 )

On a side note:

Repositioning portals without needing to spend an activation is something that happens for Eldar as well when their mobile portals break.

but the Storm Serpent is not fearless so once broken is very fragile , the Dark Eldar thing is a titan sized model which you wouldn't risk in that way.

I don't think you can compare Necron portals and Webway gates in that way, portals are a main point of the Necron list, Webways are part of the Eldar, what i'm trying to say is portals for the Necrons are like hit-and-run for the Eldar, if you can't use hit-and-run with Eldar most of the time winning is much harder.

so if someone has a problem with the way portals work come up with a better idea, but that idea has to let necrons be able to use portals to there maximum advantage because if without good portal rules Necrons aren't worth playing with or against.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Quote: 

so if someone has a problem with the way portals work come up with a better idea, but that idea has to let necrons be able to use portals to there maximum advantage because if without good portal rules Necrons aren't worth playing with or against.

Oh I'm not convinced a different rule is nessesary.

I'm just pointing out that Monoliths generally recieve a boost in utility if you break them, rather than a nerf... one of the best anti-Necron tactics is to *not* shoot at the Monoliths and just move away instead. The Necrons are then left stranded without their teleporting re-deployment at the start of each turn and you can then just chip away at them with ranged firepower.
Author:  Pulsar [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 24 2010, 17:24 )

Quote: 

so if someone has a problem with the way portals work come up with a better idea, but that idea has to let necrons be able to use portals to there maximum advantage because if without good portal rules Necrons aren't worth playing with or against.

Oh I'm not convinced a different rule is nessesary.

I'm just pointing out that Monoliths generally recieve a boost in utility if you break them, rather than a nerf... one of the best anti-Necron tactics is to *not* shoot at the Monoliths and just move away instead. The Necrons are then left stranded without their teleporting re-deployment at the start of each turn and you can then just chip away at them with ranged firepower.

i wasn't really looking for a rule change, and i only think it's single Monoliths that get a real boost, the multi monolith formations are worth going after if they come closer after breaking,

I think alot of the problems people have with Necrons isn't the Necrons it's the fact that they try to use the same tactics against necrons as they would use against guard or orks.
Author:  corey3750 [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
as a general rule, it's not worth shooting at Monoliths unless you can pour enough firepower into them to pop a Monolith.

That's easy enough to do with single Monoliths, and less so with the larger, more supported Monolith formations.

Mostly that's because, as you pointed out, you're better off just moving away from them, and essentially crippling the Necron's mobility, or forcing the Monoliths to double move all the time, making what weapons they have virtually worthless.
Author:  Moscovian [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
Quote: 

As long as it's not turn 3 or 4 (meaning that they can't claim objectives/count as destroyed for VPs), Necron Monoliths generally *want* to become broken.


Disagreeing here.  Since the auto-rally function has been removed I can truly say that I can count the number of times I've wanted my Monolith formation to break on one finger.  A Monolith formation that is stranded off board because it fails to rally is debilitating to the extreme, regardless of the turn number.  While having one or two portals unable to come on the board might not have been an issue with the popcorn Monolith armies of the past, that type of formation is no longer an option and the these new larger formations are now at a premium.  You can't just throw away them away anymore.  Well I suppose you can, but you'd be just plain goofy doing it.   :p
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  broken monolith and portal
I'm with mosc actually. Since the auto-rally and single monoliths are a thing of the past necrons have far fewer portal formations on the board and so losing one of them to a failed rally offboard really hurts. I don't generally want my monoliths to break any more like I used to.
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