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Deceiver Change proposal
Moscovian
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:58 pm 
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I emailed this to Corey and he suggested I throw it out to the community for some feedback.
I had a weird idea that might capture the Deceiver a little better. ?I was looking for some old threads and notes and you made mention you didn't know what to do with him so you went with the 6BP disrupt thing. ?What do think about giving him a 9BP or 12BP or even 18BP but hits ONLY cause Blast Markers. ?No casualties are involved ever. ?He would be awesome at breaking formations rendering them useless (akin to making men cower in fear at the vision of their worst nightmares) but no loss of actual troops. ?A single line note in the stat box would be explain it quite easily too. ?I got the idea when I was looking over the Codex last night.

What do you think?


After some thought 18BP would not be a good idea, but perhaps something like 12BPs. ?Corey brought up an excellent point that the Deceiver would brutalize broken formations. ?My thinking is that with 6BP disrupt it will be awful to broken formations no matter what. ?

Any of you who know me know that I think special rules should be kept to a minimum. ?With this said it would be for only the Deceiver and the special rule would be a single line in the unit box.

Thoughts?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:04 pm 
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I like this idea... simple and intuitive.




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Chroma
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:07 pm 
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Aren't the "kills" from The Deceiver's "Despair" just assumed to be throwing down their weapons or fleeing instead of "dead"?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:14 pm 
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I think so.  So under this proposed Epic rule a formation that is attacked by this would be surpressed or broken, representing the 'giving up' of those troops. Once they rallied they would snap out of it in a sense.

If they were broken to begin with perhaps it would a stronger exercion of the C'tan's power or the formation became too disorganized to get those troops back (they ran too far away or were too shaken up) or whatever.

It isn't a must-do for the Necrons.  Just a very simple change that would make it a little more accurate while actually being less deadly but still being a good tactical choice.  It never sat well with me that he Army champ never liked his own unit and when I proposed this it came as little surprise that Corey had considered this in the past.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:30 pm 
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I knew how violently people react to special rules... I tried to cut down on them as much as possible :)

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zombocom
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:57 pm 
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I see little wrong with the current version, and certainly no reason to add another special rule to the list.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:14 pm 
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(zombocom @ Nov. 10 2007,13:57)
QUOTE
I see little wrong with the current version, and certainly no reason to add another special rule to the list.

bing

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:20 pm 
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Zombo, it wasn't meant to correct a mistake in the list.  According to Corey's design notes and postings the C'tan never met his expectations as to a good cross over from 40K.  This would help the list more accurately reflect the Deceiver that's all.
Unlike the core lists the Necrons are still out of balance and very much experimental.  The timeclock is ticking for when it goes into Epic: Raiders and it would be wonderful to have all the big things out of the way (including the army champ happy with his own list) and the list being as Necron-ish as possible.
In your opinion do you think this change would unduly effect the balance of the unit or the list in general?  In other words, would you freak out if it was changed?  If so, why?

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zombocom
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:04 pm 
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No, it wouldn't freak me out, and I wouldn't be all that bothered if the deciever was changed to something else, but I am on principle against the idea of introducing new special rules into the list where they aren't really necessary.

The deciever is not overpowered, and not a major source of concern, so introducing another new special rule is really not needed. Even if Corey decides to change the deciever rules, I sincerely hope he doesn't introduce another special rule. He's absolutely right on that front.

There are far more important parts of the list to focus on.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:16 pm 
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Quiet foolish Zombiecom!

He is a star god, and can have a special rule if he wants to!

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zombocom
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:27 pm 
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One of the attractions of epic is that unlike many other games most units don't have unique special rules.

In this case the rules function perfectly well, and the unit is balanced. A special rule is entirely unneccesary.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:31 pm 
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It is a very flavourful suggestion though...

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Onyx
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:30 am 
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I think this is a very "flavourful" idea.

It is only for a single unit that won't get used every game and does add something special to what should be a special unit (a star god).

I like it!

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Deceiver Change proposal
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:42 am 
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I dunno. I think it's somewhat more flavorful to consider his ability at trickery to be -so- great he can convince his opponents they're supposed to die, so they do! Causing Space Marines to have heart attacks (Two at once, even!) in the middle of a fight. Now -that- sounds like a manipulative ultra-powerful star-god to me. Not just making them run away, but scaring them to DEATH!
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