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New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
tv1013
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:09 pm 
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There are promotional data sheets online for the forthcoming Warhammer 40K: Apocalypse supplement, which is essentially Epic for 40K scale.

There is a new formation choice called a "Monolith Phalanx", with the datasheet found here: ?Necron Monolith Datasheet

I'm in no way suggesting that Monoliths get updated because of this, merely some food for thought. ?Mmmmm... reduced-strength weapons and better WBB... mmmmmm.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:24 pm 
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which is essentially Epic for 40K scale.


It's really not. :)

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tv1013
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:26 pm 
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What would you call it then?  Other than a cash grab to move lots of models  :D
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:28 pm 
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I call it 'silly fun'.

GW calls it 'madness'.

Objectively, Apocalypse removes what tactics there are in 40k and replaces them with five hundred dice and lots of oppertunities to shout 'BANG!!!!'.

Epic is a very tactical wargame, Apocalypse is silly fun; One of those is targetted at adults. :)

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Moscovian
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:44 pm 
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Soooo, what about them Monolith formations, eh?  I wonder how that would go in Epic?  Imagine assaulting 3 Monoliths (up to 18 FF rolls!!!) Jeepers.

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tv1013
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:52 pm 
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Just off the top of my head, something like:

- If an enemy unit draws line of sight to one of your units, and said line of sight falls between two Monoliths, and those Monoliths are within 20 cm of each other, the enemy unit suffers -1 to hit.

- If three or more Monoliths are all within 20 cm of each other, any units within the perimeter set up by the Monoliths may restore an additional Necron unit when Marshalling or Regrouping.

I'm sure than can be worded better, however.
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Moscovian
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:20 pm 
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I don't know.  I think all that can be generalized and absorbed into the assault function.  If you get between 3 monoliths I think you are at enough of a disadvantage (doomed would be more appropriate).  But given that we are on 4.2 and we're already playtesting things that will eventually become the 4.3 changes, I don't know if a Monolith phalanx is needed or desired.  It may just imbalance the whole list AGAIN.  They are darn hard to balance in the first place and I am assuming at this point the initiative/SR changes will be enough.  They may not be.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:31 pm 
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Following the 40K mechanics is doomed to eventual overwhelming fiddliness.  Minor effects like that are abstracted in Epic and treated in the aggregate, not mapped over individually.  Many of the Apocalypse effects are things Epic already takes into consideration, e.g. we assume that all artillery fire has spotters of some kind, rather than having a special Whirlwind/Speeder combo effect.

If (and I do mean _if_) we want to include new effects like this, keep it simple.  Boost a stat if at all possible.  If you absolutely have to use a special rule, come up with something very easy to track and work out - "A formation of 3 or more Monoliths counts as having the Leader ability."

I would be inclined to make a Phalanx formation and be done with it - either a separate formation or as an option for adding Monoliths instead of obelisks (or, heck, both).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:38 pm 
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I would be inclined to make a Phalanx formation and be done with it - either a separate formation or as an option for adding Monoliths instead of obelisks (or, heck, both).


I'm with Neal.

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Hojyn
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:32 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 23 2007,22:38)
QUOTE
I would be inclined to make a Phalanx formation and be done with it - either a separate formation or as an option for adding Monoliths instead of obelisks (or, heck, both).


I'm with Neal.

Me too.  :)

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fbruntz
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:06 am 
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You mean... a formation of Monoliths?!   ???  

Alone the Monolith is quite powerfull so a formation would be horrible! It's not a good idea IMHO.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:39 am 
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Monoliths can already teleport in close proximity to each other (In fact, that's how Necrons win games... they all arrive near a target formation, a phalanx Engages and wipes out the target with supporting fire, then during the turn the Monoliths become broken so that they can do the same thing next turn).

Allowing formations of monoliths wouldn't make Necrons any more or less broken than they are now.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:30 pm 
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Actually it would it make it more powerful.  By placing 3 Monoliths in a single formation you allow the formation to collect more BMs and still be a viable attacking/supporting formation.  Whereas now a single BM will break a lone monolith and take that ability away.  This 40K thing is talking about 3-5 Monoliths and now it is getting ugly.

As for them being "more broken" I agree that there are issues, but if this is the general perspective why would we want to complicate matters?  I certainly don't.  As far as I know I'm the only human being that has posted a batrep with the new 4.2 rules and they are closer to being fixed than they ever have been.  These new changes to SR and initiative IMO will come very close to 'fixing' the Necrons.

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Chroma
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:46 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Aug. 24 2007,12:30)
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Actually it would it make it more powerful. ?By placing 3 Monoliths in a single formation you allow the formation to collect more BMs and still be a viable attacking/supporting formation. ?Whereas now a single BM will break a lone monolith and take that ability away. ?This 40K thing is talking about 3-5 Monoliths and now it is getting ugly.

Well, they can already "bulk up" with Obelisks, so that's not a specific problem.

Has anyone actually played with the current Necron rules with the "capped" values for the Gauss Flux Arc?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: New WH40K: Apocalypse rules for Monoliths
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:43 pm 
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My bro' thinks they're still broken, due to the basic mechanics of phasing-out.

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