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Necrons v4.4 thoughts
corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:49 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 30 2008,14:46)
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The 40k stats aren't some holy tome to followed without deviation. If the rules break the game, then you should change them.

you've obviously never interacted directly with them.  :D

as far as they are concerned, such things ARE a holy tome from which deviation is heresy.

Of course, I could just drop them to TK(1), and give you 3 for 250 points.

Then they might actually be useful.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:54 pm 
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With the Apocalypse rules the Pylon has a Gauss Flux Annihilator (or was it Gauss Flux Destuctor in english?)with the following stats :

Particle Whip: 120" Strength D, Armourpiercing 2, Heavy 3, AA-Mount (oops sorry have over looked it, thought it would stand in the grey box).

Gauss Flux Arc: 18", Strength 6, Armourpiercing 3, Heavy D6*
*fires D6 shots at every unit in 18" range

If a Strength D weapons hits it always penetrates the armour and ignores cover (but can be downgraded to a glancing hit if the ruels say so. eg Smokelaunchers, fast moving Skimmers, etc) and add +1 to the damage roll.
Non-vehicles are automatically wounded and ignores cover and armour saves (but invulnerable saves count)and can cause instand kill if there is no special rule to prevent this (eg Adamantiumcape for Space Marines).

The Pylon has a Ballistic Skill of 4 so it will hit on 3+. It has a DamageCapacity of 2, Living Metal, all around Armourvalue 14 and can Deepstrike.
All Necron units in 12" radius gain a 5+ Invulnerable Save.




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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:57 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Jan. 30 2008,14:54)
QUOTE
With the Apocalypse rules the Pylon has a Gauss Flux Annihilator (or was it Gauss Flux Destuctor in english?)with the following stats :

Particle Whip: 120" Strangth D, Armourpiercing 2, Heavy 3, AA-Mount (oops sorry have over looked it, thought it would stand in the grey box).

Gauss Flux Arc: 18", Strength 6, Armourpiercing 3, Heavy D6*
*fires D6 shots at every unit in 18" range

If a Strength D weapons hits it always penetrates the armour and ignores cover (but can be downgraded to a glancing hit if the ruels say so. eg Smokelaunchers, fast moving Skimmers, etc) and add +1 to the damage roll.
Non-vehicles are automatically wounded and ignores cover and armour saves (but invulnerable saves count)and can cause instand kill if there is no special rule to prevent this (eg Adamantiumcape for Space Marines).

thank you. :)

I've never seen the apocolypse rules because GW screwed around with us.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:00 pm 
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I editet my posting above. Now the rules are complete.

And for Necron weapons as a whole..perhabs this thread is helpful:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=11378

But behold that i'm not quite sure if i should treat the gauss weapon specialrule as the same as rending which would improve the to hit roll of all Necron weapons by 1 and would give the Gaus Flayer a 15cm AP6+ shooting attack.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:27 pm 
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Frankly I couldn't really give a fig what the 40k stats of weapons are. If they're ballanced in epic and fit the background that's good enough for me.

Corey: Normal destroyers are already much better than heavys, so making just the heavys slower is not a good plan. I'd propose a 25cm move for both, 2xAP4+AT6+ for the normals and 1xAT3+AA6+ for the heavy, with a cost increase to 375.

I might start playtesting them with those stats.

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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:36 pm 
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Mass AA is not a good idea, no issue which army list. One of the main issues is to reduce mass AA rushes (look at the Ork-flakwagon issue). Please takle that in count if you design the units. The pylon is over the top anyway, no need to make the destroyers AA.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:42 pm 
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Soren: They idea of heavy destroyer AA is to reduce the reliance on pylons. Currently, necron players have no choice but to take them, as it's the only AA in the list. With another AA option I could leave the pylon at home once in a while, as it's not that effective for me, yet draws complaints from opponents.

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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Every list has the same problem. Marines have to take Hunter, orks have to take Flakwagon, Imps have to take hydra, even TAU have to take skyray. More examples? (Eldar without SHT, Ferals)

Sorry, the argument is lame.

If something draws complaints, it?s worth talking about, but generating abilities is not the right way.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:03 pm 
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Not true. All those lists have their own fighters which they can take to use as AA. The necrons have no planes.

Not only that, but the obligitory Pylon eats into the war engine allowance.

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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:19 pm 
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(zombocom @ Jan. 29 2008,22:03)
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Not only that, but the obligitory Pylon eats into the war engine allowance.

So do fighters, which have their drawbacks and benefits for sure, and none of them reach the threat.level of a pylon

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:24 pm 
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Pylons are precisely that: a threat. They're not actually likely to kill anything, since the opponent sees the threat and lays 2 (!) blast markers to break the pylon. Then the planes are free to bomb to their hearts content. If you can't find a way to lay 2 blast markers then frankly don't play.

Pylons are great on paper, but in the dozens of field tests I've done with them I've managed to shoot down a grand total of one plane.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:25 pm 
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Or you don't have to take the Pylon...  I ran a tournament a couple years back and out of eight players not a single person brought an aircraft.  Not one.  Corey's Pylon ended up as a lovely decoration in the middle of the board with a little 'broken symbol' next to it for the majority of three games (correct me if I am wrong, Corey).  

Soren is right on this one.  The list doesn't need more AA.  And even if you could convince me it did there is no way you can convince me it needs more reliance on the Destroyer unit.

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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:28 pm 
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(zombocom @ Jan. 29 2008,22:24)
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Pylons are great on paper, but in the dozens of field tests I've done with them I've managed to shoot down a grand total of one plane.

Please don?t misunderstand me but I disbelieve this :)

Eighter you have REALLY tough opponents or someting tacticswise went wrong but even the plain statistic numbers cannot lie :)

And IF you are right...good, this hosts some vulnerability to the list, why not.

Opponents will thinkl the other way round and bring fewer aircraft because of the possibility of a pylon. This is a success also on the paper but a good one I think.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:45 pm 
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It's absolutely true. I've shot down one plane, once. I've only had two chances to shoot at planes at all. Only a very silly opponent will send planes onto the field of play against an unbroken pylon. They break it first, then bomb the crap out of it.

No tactical genius required, just common sense.

If they don't manage to break it, fear of the pylon will just make them stand the planes down that turn and break the pylon the next turn.

Necron players very rarely actually get a chance to fire the thing, and almost never at planes. Opponents just aren't silly enough to let that happen.

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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:47 pm 
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Mhm, I understand, but this is also a possibility to hinder the opponent the usage of its airforce....

Don?t you think this is worth the points ans sufficient to the list?

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