Personally I think the fully maxed 5 Pylons is probably less broken than the fully maxed 13 Thunderhawks + Landing Craft (Though admitedly the pylons would obviously win in a match-up between the two).

Just because you can max out on something, doesn't mean you will or should.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

From experience at UK tournaments most races apart from Chaos will have at least one air formation about 90% of the time, and those that do generally have two or more.

I've recently been using 2 t'bolt formations with my guard as it gives them a nice formation that is relatively survivable as long as your careful with their placement. Even standing them down can be useful on occasion.

This was the call with the OGBM teleporting WEs as well, prior to the change in mechanics.  Teleporting WE means 1 die roll per DC.

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I don't understand many of the comments about Pylon deployment.

What is the advantage to teleporting Pylons?  I see only downsides.  1/3 of the time you get a BM, which means instant break as soon as someone looks at them crossly.  1/36 of the time you break on entry.  Teleporting into dangerous terrain is a serious gamble, as Chroma pointed out.  Plus, the chances of Necrons losing strategy are pretty good, so a forward position adds substantial vulnerability without a good chance of them being able to fire/OW before being subject to attack.

They're much less vulnerable with a normal deployment zone deployment.  The Necrons have lots of teleporters to deter arty and enemy teleporters.  A ground rush usually means that the enemy has to extend pretty far to hit the deployment zone and if that's a real threat the Necron teleporters can turn the approach into a kill zone.  In addition, the range of the Pylons themselves mean that the most likely hindrance on fire is line of sight rather than range.  As long as you can get a decent field of fire, you can put the Pylons on the back board edge, making it that much easier to protect them.  Realistically, the enemy can probably get to the Pylons and shut them down if it's a really high priority, but they can only do so only by opening themselves up to serious Necron counterattack, which is of substantial value in itself.

As far as "making their points back" the deployment zone approach works fine.  If the opponent has really heavy air, it's a no-brainer you can use blocked Line of Sight and get it back off their aircraft.  If the enemy doesn't have much air, then you deploy the Pylons for lines of fire against ground approach.  They're not likely to kill enough ground forces to make their points back on a raw point count, but they are excellent area denial against high-value ground units and can babysit objectives (at least the Blitz) while they do it.


None of that is to say I'm convinced the Plethora of Pylons is broken, just that I don't understand a lot of the claims being made about them being fragile and unable to affect the enemy.  I can see a lot of situations where that would be true (a low-air horde army would be at substantial advantage, for instance) but I don't understand the assertion that it's true as a general rule.

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Neal

Well, the first Plethora of Pylons battle is up... hope to get a second one in later in the week.

Take a read and let me know what you think!

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Just because you can max out on something, doesn't mean you will or should.

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Epic- A version of the game with even smaller models that is often dominated by titans which are vehicles the size of a large building and have the ability to pwn...everything. There is also infantry, whose only function in Epic is to provide valuable traction to Titans walking across snowy paths.

Hena is just upset because he thinks Thunderhawks (Or Thunderbricks as he calls them) should be immune to all ground-based AA fire.  

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Why would that be a problem, Hena?

If you go into a tournament, you should be prepared to face any kind of army, Necrons included. And in casual play, it doesn't really matter as long as you have fun, does it?

Pylons are a real threat to any kind of aircraft, but they're also quite vulnerable: with only 2DC, it's quite easy to break them, giving you enough time to disembark your troops.

And if you really fear them AND want to use your transport craft, why not take a spacecraft in order to allow your transport craft to Planetfall (most of them can)? Planetfalling is immune to AA fire. In my opinion, any army making heavy use of transport craft should take a spacecraft anyway, just in case they run into an AA-heavy army.

Well, of the five Pylons in my recent battle report, four were nullified in one turn.  And, if my opponent hadn't forgotten their Terminators, all five would've probably been broken/destroyed before aircraft were even deployed.

So, I'm not sure how they're "broken" against aircraft... except that "breaking" them is exactly what you have to do... and *then* you can bring in your aircraft.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Chroma, I think your game was an extreme example against and army with no deployed ground formations. In more balanced armies I'd expect maybe 2-3 to be air transports probably carrying another 1-2 activations in them. that would leave between 6 and 8 ground formations to break your 5 pylons.

Even so you managed to get a 2-1 win and had the terminators come in I think you'd have been in the stronger position turn 4.

Other than Marines, do you often see armies with 2-3 air transports formations with multiple formations in them?!

The thing is, even with an "air-focused" Marine list, if you happened to match up against Pylon-focused Necrons, you could just choose not to do the air assaults early on and deploy your formations on the ground, perhaps garrisoned/on overwatch; it's not like you're locked-in to using your Thunderhawks with them.  So, you have to change your tactics for a game, why is that a "broken" thing?  Once you've broken/eliminated the Pylons, you can do pick-ups and drop-offs later in the game.

Against ground-pounding Imperial Guard or Orks, or even Eldar, all those Pylons would've been next to useless, killing, on average, only 2-3 models a turn... certainly not worth the 1000 points invested!

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I've seen orks and eldar armies using two aircraft carrying troops. Surely just forcing your opponent to deploy all those foot formations is worth the points, and 2 or 3 pylons would be enough to make that decision a no brainer.

I should note that I am as yet undecided on how good/bad pylons are. I'd like to see other reports where they are used against other types or armies. I'll even try some games myself once the DS GT is over assuming I can get my local opponent to play against them.

Well, if your local opponent doesn't relish the thought of "losing" in a playtest, why not let them play the Necrons and you play the opposition?

I'm hoping to get in another game with the Pylons this weekend, though I may reduce their number... it sucks having SR1 for the Necrons!  *laugh*

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I would but he is a bit new and still learning the game. A special rule heavy experimental army probably isn't going to go well!

If I can kick some of my more experienced gamers into action it would be better.