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Necrons v4.4 thoughts
Ilushia
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:30 am 
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The point, as I understand it, to Moscovian's suggestion is to make the fielding of individual monoliths expensive while making their support cheap enough you'll WANT to buy support rather then just buy another formation. At 125/75/50 you'd end up being able to field 2 monoliths and 1 obelisk for the price of 2 separate monolith formations. For many people, I suspect they'd rather just have the 2 monolith formations (More things for the enemy to shoot at, and more chances to rally should they be broken, more mobility, more activations, etc.) While fielding the 2-lith 1-obelisk unit would give you better rate of avoiding breaking, most folks would, I suspect, be happier just taking 2 monoliths.

With Moscovian's listed prices, though, you can get 2 liths and 2 obelisks (or 3 liths!) for the price of 2 separate liths. That's a good enough price-break to make it really worth while to take larger units rather then more units, IMHO. Does this make the obelisk too cheap? Maybe. But, for instance, for the price of 3 monolith and 3 obelisks (Theoretically the best price for them per-unit!) you can get 10 gunwagonz. Now, they are quite good, resilient, skimming units. But you're still outnumbered more then 1.5 to 1 by the gunwagonz under 'optimal' conditions for price-break, so I don't think it's that unreasonable.
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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:02 am 
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I'm definately in favour of trying moscovian's suggestions. I'll probably playtest them tommorow.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:21 am 
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Hena: With two seperate monos for 200 or a formation of two for 175, I'd still take two seperate ones any day.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:02 pm 
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Hena - Yes, but that doesn't really solve the problem. Even at 100 points a popcorn horror 13+ activation list is still quite possible.

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rpr
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:41 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 06 2008,13:36)
QUOTE
13 activations isn't too bad. Other lists can do that easily as well.

Not with fearless super-RA 4+ units...
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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:05 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 06 2008,06:59)
QUOTE
So you go then with 125 / 75 / 50 ?

No, you go with...
Monolith: 125 points
+0-2 Monoliths: 65 points each
+0-3 Obelisks: 35 points each
:D
Ilushia is breakdown is correct; the idea isn't to field cheap Obelisks but to encourage larger (and fewer) Monolith formations. ?The fact that Obelisks are less expensive in the above suggestion is more of a shell game since you can't field them cheaply by themselves - to get the discount you must buy the expensive Monolith. ?The proposal above really only affects popcorn armies which seem to be the main sticking point.

FYI it isn't my fault if the additional Monoliths don't work at those price points.  I am sure the standard one Monolith plus support will work though.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:02 pm 
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Obelisks' and Monoliths' abilities don't mesh well.  Obelisks are fast and (for Necrons) relatively long range.  Monoliths are slow and work best in close quarters.  Pairing them up wastes all the Obelisks' advantages with the result that at 50/75 points, there is an internal balance problem.  Those may be okay points in their own separate roles, but in a Monolith formation, the Monoliths are a much better value.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:16 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Feb. 07 2008,10:02)
QUOTE
Obelisks' and Monoliths' abilities don't mesh well. ?Obelisks are fast and (for Necrons) relatively long range. ?Monoliths are slow and work best in close quarters. ?Pairing them up wastes all the Obelisks' advantages with the result that at 50/75 points, there is an internal balance problem. ?Those may be okay points in their own separate roles, but in a Monolith formation, the Monoliths are a much better value.

which is part of the reason why they'd be so cheap.  You'd be depriving them of most of their intrinsic advantages that way, and be using them as nothing more than grots in an Ork list.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:28 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 06 2008,13:07)
QUOTE
Making too many non 25 costs is making this list the minmaxers dream in E:A. And that is a very bad thing.

How is this a minmaxer's dream?  If anything, I would think it was more a minmaxer's annoyance, as there's the potential they won't be able to spend all their points.

For the proposed 125/65/35... well, an extra Monolith and an Obelisk makes an even +100, so that should be fine.

I *DO* agree that Immortals and Pariahs should be multiples of 25, mind you.  *laugh*  Heck, I prefer all point values to be multiples of 25.

Guess it's the fickle Eldar in me...

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