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Necrons v4.4 thoughts
Ilushia
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:23 pm 
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The principle problem is with 'popcorn' all-monolith armies, right? So... Instead of limiting general support formations, why not just make Monolith formations be 0-1 per Phalanx. And then make each monolith formation be 1-3 Monoliths and 0-3 Obelisks. With the restriction that each monolith formation can only transport a single thing per turn? You could still take a Warbarque or Abattoir to up your portal numbers, but it'd give you incentive to both field more Phalanxes and reduce the number of lone monoliths in an army (Fielding lone monoliths is a bad plan when you can only have 3 of them, after all!) I might even leave the monolith formations as-is, save that I've found them to be pretty fragile, and limiting 'crons to probably 2 or 3 monoliths, due to the number of phalanxes in an army (I usually run 3, myself) could cause you significant issues with having them all die (Though I've not heard too many complaints about losing them all for non-popcorn armies before, so that may be a more theoretical danger then realistic.)
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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:30 pm 
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I don?t think that fielding a lone monolith is a bad idea if you can raise the portal count via. other sources. This dimishes away the effect of the restriction, as you will alway take max of them cheap.

Then we have again the same problem as with marines, where everyone (well some guys) seeing maxing Warhounds out is a problem and making it a MUST choice.

Just give them a decent size a point cost and we will get maybe a good list and avoid the popcorning effect. I don?t know why some boys here are fighting against a law, which is build in in EVERY other army list which wants to be named "balanced"

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:35 pm 
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and yet still popcorn Necron armies suck if opposed in a halfway decent fashion.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Corey: Popcorn isn't the issue, the issue is that monoliths are too good when used as spread out mobile portals and nothing more.

Pulsar asked me what I thought he could have done to stop me eliminating him on the first turn, and frankly I couldn't think of anything. He did just about everything right, but the sheer number of activations allowed me to draw out his whole army before I brought any phalanxes onto the board, after which I could pick apart the juicy targets with no reply.

The sole reason for this was the 5 formations of 1 monolith.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Could simple luck have been a factor?

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:45 pm 
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To a slight extent. I was handed the initiative by him failing his first activation, but beyond that most rolls were roughly average.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:10 pm 
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I've found that Overwatch is generally a good thing when facing 'crons. That way you can wail on the phalanxes when they do show up (Or on the monoliths themselves if he's crazy enough to try to engage with one). I, for one, am not above putting most (if not all) of my army on overwatch to counter that precise tactic. Then shoot the heck out of the phalanxes when they do start showing up.

I'd actually kindof like to see a bat rep for it (If there isn't one already) myself. A little insight on precisely what happened and which actions were taken would probably help somewhat.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:13 pm 
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(zombocom @ Feb. 04 2008,15:45)
QUOTE
To a slight extent. I was handed the initiative by him failing his first activation, but beyond that most rolls were roughly average.

Do you guys have access to a digital camera, zombo?

Could you, the next time you fight with Necrons, do a detailed battle report?  Or at least initial deployments and teleports if you can't/don't want to do the details.

Thanks!

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:51 pm 
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We already discussed that, and we're going to do several indepth battle reports in the next week or two.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:19 pm 
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Thanks, Zombocom.  That will help everyone.  I've got some battle time slotted in the next couple weeks that I hope will help out as well.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:29 pm 
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(Ilushia @ Feb. 05 2008,11:10)
QUOTE
I've found that Overwatch is generally a good thing when facing 'crons. That way you can wail on the phalanxes when they do show up (Or on the monoliths themselves if he's crazy enough to try to engage with one). I, for one, am not above putting most (if not all) of my army on overwatch to counter that precise tactic. Then shoot the heck out of the phalanxes when they do start showing up.

I'd actually kindof like to see a bat rep for it (If there isn't one already) myself. A little insight on precisely what happened and which actions were taken would probably help somewhat.

That is correct.

In fact I demonstrated just how devestating Overwatch can be against the Necron :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:46 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 04 2008,17:29)
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In fact I demonstrated just how devestating Overwatch can be against the Necron :)

And the battle report is where?   :D

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:36 pm 
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I'm substantially less concerned about Monolith Popcorn now that the auto-rally is removed but I could still see it being problematic.  Certainly, this comment from Zombocom seems to point to a lessened but not removed issue:
the sheer number of activations that is possible by using lone monoliths is sick. Corey, I know you think the most effective way to use monoliths is with obelisk escorts, but it really isn't. Individual cheap as chips monoliths give a 60cm range around them that can be engaged out of (30cm monolith double move, 15 cm engage move, 15cm firefight range), and by having them individually you can spread them out to cover almost the entire board. Either monoliths need to go up in price or a total rethink is needed on how they work.


Note that the large "coverage zone" for each portal is really the problem more than the number of portals.  A formation of Monoliths would cut down on the area coverage as well as the activations.

What about something like...

Monolith - 100 points
+0-2 Monoliths - +75 points each
+0-3 Obelisks - +50 points each

That would make the popcorn substantially more expensive (150-200 points at ~3000), maintain the flexibility of adding Obelisks, and put a 3-Mono formation at 250 points as many people have suggested.

Could that still be abused in some way?  Would there even be any point in having Obelisks (would anyone take them)?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Could that still be abused in some way?


Not to such an insane extent.

Would there even be any point in having Obelisks (would anyone take them)?

Probably not (Probably not).

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:35 pm 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 05 2008,12:46)
QUOTE

(corey3750 @ Feb. 04 2008,17:29)
QUOTE
In fact I demonstrated just how devestating Overwatch can be against the Necron :)

And the battle report is where? ? :D

I don't remember where he posted it.  It was the game that Illushia did the battle report for where I sat my tournament army in one spot and chewed his formations into dogmeat when they came for me.

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