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Necrons v4.4 thoughts
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:23 pm 
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rpr
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:31 pm 
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I am pro to idea NOT to have a 75 point activation. Especially an useful one =]
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ragnarok
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Crazy thought here (I ghave been writing a question paper on AS physics mechanics and my brain has dribbled out of my ears).

Why not have monos as 1-3 per formation, with or without obelisks

and give the monos a "transport capacity"  to represnt the number of necrons that can pass though them in a single activation.

this means that if you se an uber phalanx o' doom, then you need to have several monos in the formation (or a tomb complex) to get them on the board.

You could also ban spyders from traveling though a mono.

now, if you will excuse me.  I have to get a sponge to soke my brain out of the carpet.  :p

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:46 pm 
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So not a "transport capacity" but a "portal capacity"?

The portal capacity could state which units and in which numbers could pass through the portal.

So a  Monolith could have: Portal (may teleport six units of Necron Warrior, Flayed Ones, Wraith, Destroyer & Heavy Destroyer units.)




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Pulsar
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:52 pm 
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i was the Eldar player Zombocom is talking about, as he said before we played the game two see if Pylons were as bad as people say they were when used in pairs here is the list i used:

Avatar Total: free

Wraithgate Total: ?50

Aspect Warrior Warhost (300)
(6 Warp Spiders and 2 Fire dragons)
+ 2 Exarchs (50) Total: 350

Aspect Warrior Warhost (300)
(4 Dire Avengers and 4 Striking Scorpions)
+ 4 Wave Serpents (200)
+ Autarch (75)
+ Exarch (25) Total: 600

Guardian Warhost (150)
+ 3 Wraithguard units (150)
+ 3 Wrathlords (175) Total: 475

Ranger Troupe
(4 Rangers) Total: 100

Sword Of Vaul
(5 Fire Prisms) Total: 325

Sword Of Vaul
(6 Falcons) Total: 300

Engine Of Vaul
(1 Voidspinner) Total: 250

Phoenix Bombers Total: 400

Vampire Raider Total: 200
Total: 3000 ?9 activations + Avatar.

what do you guys think of the list?

i think having to use Monoliths in threes would be a good idea, because at the present time to beat necrons you need to kill the majorty of the monoliths, but because they are doted about the bord i have to use all my activations to either try to kill them (unlikey against Zombocom because of this uncanny luck in making 6+ inv saves) or break them and hope they don't rally in the end phase.
Even if i manage this he's still got 4-5 formations left to use with his portals, witch because of the range they can cover most of the bord therefore the necron player can completely out maneovre me, which for Eldar makes it very hard to win the game.

So, yes the Monoliths in one formation would be a FF monster but what Necron formations are not good at that?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:27 pm 
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(Pulsar @ Feb. 03 2008,19:52)
QUOTE
i think having to use Monoliths in threes would be a good idea, because at the present time to beat necrons you need to kill the majorty of the monoliths, but because they are doted about the bord i have to use all my activations to either try to kill them

Actually, to beat Necrons you need to destroy/break their *Phalanxes* (and support formations) first, as Monoliths, on their own, can't actually do a lot.  

Overwatch fire, snipers to take out Pariahs, and then hammering broken units until they're destroyed in the first two turns, and then mop up/break Monoliths in the endgame.

(unlikey against Zombocom because of this uncanny luck in making 6+ inv saves) or break them and hope they don't rally in the end phase.

Er... Monoliths don't *have* invulnerable saves...

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:53 pm 
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(Pulsar @ Feb. 03 2008,19:52)
QUOTE
i think having to use Monoliths in threes would be a good idea, because at the present time to beat necrons you need to kill the majorty of the monoliths, but because they are doted about the bord i have to use all my activations to either try to kill them
[quote="Chroma,Feb. 03 2008,21:27"]
Actually, to beat Necrons you need to destroy/break their *Phalanxes* (and support formations) first, as Monoliths, on their own, can't actually do a lot.
?


yes monoliths can do alot on the own, the thing they do best is force you to try to kill them but using your activations and how do you get to the Phalanxes if they only come on too the table after you have used all your activations?

Overwatch fire, snipers to take out Pariahs, and then hammering broken units until they're destroyed in the first two turns, and then mop up/break Monoliths in the endgame.


snipers are the necron players first target because then he can FF my formations, andif you do manage you take out the Phalanxes you will probley have alot less of your army to use later.

Er... Monoliths don't *have* invulnerable saves...

Er... yes they do:
Living Metal Weapon Effect Chart
Weapon /Armor /Reinforced /Invulnerable /DC Lost
Type ? ? ? Save ? Armour Save ? Save
AT/AP ? ?/Yes ? ? ? ? ? /Yes ? ? ? ? ? ?/Yes ? ? ? ? ? ? / 1
MW ? ? ?/Yes ? ? ? ? ?/Yes ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/Yes ? ? ? ? ? ? /1
TK ? ? ? /No ? ? ? ? ? /Yes ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/Yes ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/1

i copied this from the Necron 4.3 doc.

Necron in the hands of someone who really knows how the army works is a really hard fight to win.

Edit: i can't spell!!




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:10 pm 
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The Invulnerable Save is in the chart for completeness sake. it isn't included in the Living Metal rule. It only states that if you fail the IS even a TK weapon would only score 1DC of damage.

Living Metal does only allowing the following things:
- MWs don't affect the armour save.
- threat TK the same as MW hits on non-Living Metal units.
- take a maximum of 1DC damage per hit.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:20 pm 
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I've been saying for a long while that lone Monoliths are simply too cheap (Allowing the popcorn list).

I'd be happy to see something like:

- 1x Monolith - 100pts
- 3x Monoliths - 250pts

IE: A minor price increase for the 3x Monolith formation, and a significant price increase for the lone monolith.


Oh, and fix the number of extra attacks at a set number.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:50 pm 
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The living metal/invulnerable save issue is one I was never clear on. While in the text it doesn't say they have one, the chart does.

I don't mind which way the rules are intended, but clarity is needed.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:57 pm 
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The chart only states what kind of save is allowed against which weapon type and how Living Metal modifies this save.

As you can see in the chart Living Metal has no effect on Invulnerable Saves.

If it is confusing i would delete the chart.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:36 am 
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BlackLegion: The confusion comes because no units have both living metal and an invulnerable save, which leaves the chart suggesting that living metal grants it. Remember that living metal does grant reinforced armour, it's not in the standard unit profiles, it's valid to read the chart as saying that it grants invulnerable saves too.

I look at the chart for a macro hit: "oh look, I get a normal save, a reinforced save and an invulnerable save."

It doesn't say "you get an invulnerable save if you already have one", there's just a tick in the box saying you get the save.

It's entirely unclear as to whether they have invulnerable saves or not, and I've played it both ways before now.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:32 am 
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(zombocom @ Feb. 03 2008,23:36)
QUOTE
It doesn't say "you get an invulnerable save if you already have one", there's just a tick in the box saying you get the save.

It's entirely unclear as to whether they have invulnerable saves or not, and I've played it both ways before now.

If you hadn't made those lucky invulnerable saves, how many of your Monoliths would've survived?

I'd say just remove the invulnerable save column from the chart.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:35 am 
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(zombocom @ Feb. 04 2008,18:36)
QUOTE
BlackLegion: The confusion comes because no units have both living metal and an invulnerable save, which leaves the chart suggesting that living metal grants it. Remember that living metal does grant reinforced armour, it's not in the standard unit profiles, it's valid to read the chart as saying that it grants invulnerable saves too.

I look at the chart for a macro hit: "oh look, I get a normal save, a reinforced save and an invulnerable save."

It doesn't say "you get an invulnerable save if you already have one", there's just a tick in the box saying you get the save.

It's entirely unclear as to whether they have invulnerable saves or not, and I've played it both ways before now.

I added Invulnerable to the chart because I was nagged into doing it.

Like many other things.  I'm far more resistant to nagging now.

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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:18 am 
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I second the idea of 3 monoliths for 250pts and +2EA @ FF5+.
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