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Nailing it down

 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:44 pm 
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if there are multi-Monolith formations available, how many people will have more than 1 formation per Monolith to bring through?  How many people will actually have time to bring these formations through before the Monoliths are destroyed?

My friend used 5 formations of infantry/destroyers with only a single formation with 3 Monoliths for them to come out of (he also had Tomb Complex, but I was using a slow Krieg army and barely entered his table half, so that was a bit far away to be of use). This was only his second or third Necron game and my first time against them, so that may not be optimum usage though.
Quote: 

Mechanically in Epic weapons lose 30cm of range, but this is more of a justification IMO.  The truth be told, this is just a way of balancing the unit while staying within the parameters of the game.

I still think TK(D2) would be a better compromise – it’s still unable to auto kill Landers or Thunderhawks with one shot, but two hits should be enough rather than needing 3 (or 6 Pylon shots considering they miss half the time). In our game today my opponents Pylon caused its single point of damage on a Marauder Bomber, but the Marauder was still able to fly on regardless with 1DC left and carry out its bombing run breaking a Necron infantry formation.


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Quote: (corey3750 @ Dec. 27 2009, 04:52 )

I'd like to Tweak the Monoliths to make them a useful... Not more poweful, just more useful.

THis

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Quote: (Spectrar Ghost @ Dec. 30 2009, 15:05 )

Quote: (corey3750 @ Dec. 27 2009, 04:52 )

I'd like to Tweak the Monoliths to make them a useful... Not more poweful, just more useful.

THis

oooh!

I see what you mean.  I meant PYLONS, not Monoliths! :down:

Sorry for the confusion.  I don't know why I mixed those two up!

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Quote: (corey3750 @ Dec. 29 2009, 11:56 )

I'm didn't say anything about improving Monoliths.

I'm just saying that Monoliths are absolutely nessesary to the army list.

After all, without Monoliths, you'd have a tough time keeping your army on the board :)

So, they are a bit more than just useful.  :laugh:

So you meant Pylons when you posted this?  :oo:  I am confused by what you meant then.  How do Pylons keep your army on the board?




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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Quote: (Moscovian @ Dec. 30 2009, 15:34 )

So you meant Pylons when you posted this?  :oo:  I am confused by what you meant then.  How do Pylons keep your army on the board?

see, the confusion comes from two completely different posts:

Quote: 

I appreciate the sentiment. :)

What I mean is:  What you guys have worked out is fine for now, but I don't think the list would be finished with just that.

I'd like to Tweak the Monoliths to make them a useful... Not more poweful, just more useful.

And the Necron rule, I think at this point altering the wording so it works exactly like the Void Shield rule would simplify things for everyone and eliminate confusion.

But, at the same time, I don't want to make things too difficult for Moscovian, and all the work he's put into things.  That's why I'm saying to go ahead and go with what you guys have all worked out.  :laugh:


In this one, if you replace the world "Monoliths" with "Pylons" you will see what I meant to say.

People saw that, and thought I meant there should be changes to the Monoliths, but that's not what I meant at all.

Then the comment came out that Monoliths were already useful... based upon my error in the aformentioned Post.

Quote: 

not to get too far ahead of ourselves but what could possibly make the monolith more useful.... a second portal? they are already the most useful unit in the army.


I wasn't sure, at the time, why he had posted that, so I was merely making a quip that Monoliths weren't just useful, they were vital to the Army List.

It all boils down to a misunderstanding because I screwed up in a post and reffered to the wrong unit.

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:11 pm 
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thank you. that was driving me crazy.


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Quote: (mnb @ Dec. 30 2009, 16:11 )

thank you. that was driving me crazy.

sorry. :)

I thought for a while you all were GOING crazy!

My bad.

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:04 am 
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Some correction to my previous post that i said a Pylon's shot is identical to a Shadowsword's Volcano Cannon.
Thatsnot quite correct.
A Shadowsword Volcano Cannon is:
Range 120", Strength D, 5"Blast

A Pylon's Particle Accelerator is:
Range 120", Strength D, Heavy 3 with AA-Mount

Against Infantry the 3 shots rane roughly as efficient as a 5" blast template. But against Vehicles (and Aircrafts) it's about thrice as good.
Generally a hole of the template is under the vehicle the shot has full penetration ability. With a Strength D weapon a blast template hits each vehicle with full penetration ability it touches. Not the one wich is exactly under the middle hole.
But evenwith a 5" blast template it is rare that you hit more than 1 or 2 vehicles.

So my proposal still stands:
60cm MW2+/AA2+ Titan-killer (D3)

Or if i use my Wh40k-to-Epic-System it would be:
60cm MW3+/AA3+ Titan-killer (D3)




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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:19 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Dec. 30 2009, 19:04 )

Some correction to my previous post that i said a Pylon's shot is identical to a Shadowsword's Volcano Cannon.
Thatsnot quite correct.
A Shadowsword Volcano Cannon is:
Range 120", Strength D, 5"Blast

A Pylon's Particle Accelerator is:
Range 120", Strength D, Heavy 3 with AA-Mount

Against Infantry the 3 shots rane roughly as efficient as a 5" blast template. But against Vehicles (and Aircrafts) it's about thrice as good.
Generally a hole of the template is under the vehicle the shot has full penetration ability. With a Strength D weapon a blast template hits each vehicle with full penetration ability it touches. Not the one wich is exactly under the middle hole.
But evenwith a 5" blast template it is rare that you hit more than 1 or 2 vehicles.

So my proposal still stands:
60cm MW2+/AA2+ Titan-killer (D3)

Or if i use my Wh40k-to-Epic-System it would be:
60cm MW3+/AA3+ Titan-killer (D3)

:oo:

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:49 am 
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I recognise this reaction  :grin:

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:26 pm 
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*giggle*

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:13 pm 
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I'd be lynched.

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Quote: (corey3750 @ Dec. 30 2009, 05:19 )

So my proposal still stands:
60cm MW2+/AA2+ Titan-killer (D3)

Or if i use my Wh40k-to-Epic-System it would be:
60cm MW3+/AA3+ Titan-killer (D3)[/quote]
:oo:

Deja Vu. I think we been here before...

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:48 pm 
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not this again. will the pylon talk ever end?


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Quote: 

Mechanically in Epic weapons lose 30cm of range, but this is more of a justification IMO.  The truth be told, this is just a way of balancing the unit while staying within the parameters of the game.

As for the loss of firepower, you could say that the unit is unable to keep up with the fast moving aircraft and therefore it never achieves the high power shot it does when firing at a slower moving vehicle.

EDIT I meant 15cm loss, which of course makes the change even more odd, but still...


But all AA weapons in Epic have the same range in AA fire and groung fire and the same "level of power" (normal, MW or TK). So the change wasn´t made according to fluff or actual power of the weapon, just because it´s just too powerful vs Thunderhawks and similar (I run SM :)). So a Pylon cannot destroy the TH in flight but will easily destroy it once landed. Ok, the TH could be a harder target when flying, so why not drop the AA score of the particle accelerator by 1 point to reflect this, but power and range should be the same.

I´m with BlackLegion here, I have always seen the particle accelerator very similar to the Volcano cannon, so:

60cm MW3+/AA4+ Titan-killer (D3)

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