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Necrons v4.4 thoughts
corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:38 pm 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 02 2008,10:21)
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(Moscovian @ Feb. 01 2008,14:41)
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It's a good theory to test... on a later version or a variant list. ?:)

Does the link above to my Necron variant list have a cloaking field on it or something?

Phase... in! ? :D

not at all.  I see it just fine :)

If you guys can show me that multiple Monolith formations aren't going to result in the most murderous assault unit in history, go for it.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:48 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 01 2008,15:38)
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not at all. ?I see it just fine :)

If you guys can show me that multiple Monolith formations aren't going to result in the most murderous assault unit in history, go for it.

Well, *some* formation has to be "the most murderous"...   :D

So why not a Murder of Monoliths... as long as they're costed appropriately...

I wonder if any of my friends are off work because of the snow here in Ontario... maybe I can get a game in this afternoon!

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:16 pm 
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One of the benefits of a multi monolith formation would be that the firefight abilities of monoliths could be downgraded somewhat, as they wouldn't have to be so reliant on themselves.

Plus, as has been pointed out, it's actually likely to be less effective in an assault than the classic circle of monoliths, as well as being more limited in portal positioning.

I think it's definately worth trying out anyway to see if it's viable.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:05 pm 
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This thread is about Necron 4.3 right?

I've never played with them or against them but this is what I would take:

C'Tan, The Deceiver (300)

Necron Phalanx (225)
?2 x Tomb Spyder (+150)
?3 x Immortal (+120)
?2 x Wraith (+80)
?Pariah (+60)
Cost: 635

Necron Phalanx (225)
?Tomb Spyder (+75)
?3 x Immortal (+120)
?2 x Wraith (+80)
?Pariah (+60)
Cost: 560

Necron Phalanx (225)
?Tomb Spyder (+75)
?3 x Immortal (+120)
?2 x Wraith (+80)
?Pariah (+60)
Cost: 560

Monolith (75)
Monolith (75)
Monolith (75)
Monolith (75)
Monolith (75)
Monolith (75)
Pylon (200)
Pylon (200)
Tomb Complex (75)

Right. So umm Pylons sit somewhere near my Blitz and make sure there's no Hawks, Landas or Vampires. Monoliths tellyport right in the face of the enemy and then there's the strategy roll. If I win we can remove two enemy formations and if the enemy wins I lose two monoliths (maybe). If something manages to break one of the Phalanxes the fearless units in them make sure they don't die entirely and they can regroup.

All this is theory but it just seems very unlikely that the enemy can somehow find two spare formations to go and break the pylons on the other side of the table when their own lines are being pummelled by hordes of necrons. If there is even one pylon active no sane player is going to bring a 500+ points transport on the table that takes a 4+ and 3+ roll to drop it.

The issues that I find in this list are Gauss Flux Arc, Phalanx size, number of Monoliths, insane Pylons, Infiltrating Abattoir (a flying city that moves like a horse in heat, lol), Living Metal (RA, TRA, INV could do the trick well enuff), free and cheap lords, number/power of TK's in Abattoir and Orb, 'useless' war engines, and I'd like to be able to upgrade a necron lord to a supreme commander..

Maybe Monoliths could be made into phalanx upgrades and only that phalanx could use them (yeah yeah against the fluff). That would make it more important to take other portals and all armies wouldn't look like x monoliths and something else. If the war engines would lose living metal and some tuning in their guns, they could be cheaper and more attractive and they could replace the monolith hordes. I'd tune the Pylons to MW4+/MWAA4+/90cm, drop points to 100 and let them be taken in groups of 1 to 3 (yeah yeah I know fluff fluff). Gauss Flux is just stupid and should be made into +FF extra attack or something.

Anyway, at the moment I have to agree with whoever said it earlier, "Pit?k?? tunkkinne".

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:08 pm 
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I still want Monoliths to be fixed at 'just' +4 extra attacks each.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:27 pm 
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How about +1EA per TWO enemy units in range instead per enemy unit and/or FF6+?

It is only D6 Strength 5 shot in Wh40k which won't hurt most vehicles.

If it hadn't such a short range under my system it would have one AP6+ shot per two enemy units in range.

Soif there where 5 enemy units in shooting range you would roll 3 dice against 6+ (remember in Epic you always round fractions up).

But because of it's short range it is only a Small Arms weapon (the Pylon is long ranged and powerful enough to have some 15cm shooting attacks with AP5+/AT6+ whose numbers are determined with the same system as above).
So i would favour FF 6+ with +1EA per two enemy units in range.




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Soren
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:28 pm 
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(Onyx @ Feb. 01 2008,14:08)
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[Well done Soren. Your post doesn't really help this discussion but you did manage to show me up ?:glare: ?:) .

Sorry, my post intended not to show you up but to show that armies without fighter cover work.... even work without super-AA ..... ? :;):

Unspoken ?:blush:




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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:50 pm 
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(Crabowl @ Feb. 01 2008,17:05)
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This thread is about Necron 4.3 right?

I've never played with them or against them but this is what I would take:

Hey Crabowl, what you've listed there is a style of Monolith "Popcorn" army; I'd recommend you take a look at some battle reports I did using something similar.

It's not as easy as it looks... overwatch, scouts, breaking when teleporting in all have a major impact on the army that's not reflected on paper.

E.g., if all your Monoliths are in support range to wipe out a formation and the enemy goes first, if they *assault* a single Monolith and take it out, they've just broken *all* your Monoliths...

Anyway, please take a look at these battle reports:

vs Necrons

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:45 pm 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 01 2008,17:50)
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It's not as easy as it looks... overwatch, scouts, breaking when teleporting in all have a major impact on the army that's not reflected on paper.

E.g., if all your Monoliths are in support range to wipe out a formation and the enemy goes first, if they *assault* a single Monolith and take it out, they've just broken *all* your Monoliths...

That would require one 'Uge Warband and a pretty dumb necron player. Anyway, can you show me the rule that prevents using broken portals and then we can say there's a great effect?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:10 pm 
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Clipping assaults are great on Monoliths since they don't get the benefit of the massive amounts of hits.  The last game I played with ePilgrim I clipped two monolith formations (one lone, one with an Obelisk) and broke them with no casualties.  Now that may not seem like a big deal until you factor in that they can't support anything for the rest of the turn and it cuts into their activations.  Combine those qualities with a lack of auto-rallying and the Necron line can come apart pretty quick.

I'm not saying it is easy, just easier than it used to be.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:19 pm 
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(Crabowl @ Feb. 01 2008,19:45)
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That would require one 'Uge Warband and a pretty dumb necron player. Anyway, can you show me the rule that prevents using broken portals and then we can say there's a great effect?

Er... how do you normally deploy your Monoliths? ?

If they're not close enough to support, you need to spend an activation to move them; if they *are* close enough to support, if one of them is assaulted and loses, then all the others take a Blast marker for being nearby... breaking them if they are single Monoliths.

This is under the 'experimental' assault rules which prevent "token assaults" to trigger massive amounts of support fire even after a small attacking formation is dead.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:20 pm 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 01 2008,20:19)
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(Crabowl @ Feb. 01 2008,19:45)
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That would require one 'Uge Warband and a pretty dumb necron player. Anyway, can you show me the rule that prevents using broken portals and then we can say there's a great effect?

Er... how do you normally deploy your Monoliths?

I don't since I wouldn't play with or against that list.

One option would be to drop one mono at both ends of your army and the rest in the midfield ~25 cms away in a sort of a horseshoe formation. You can break or kill 2 of them and then I can walk 2 phalanxes out and clip-firefight two of your formations. 13 or 14 necron units can do it quite well (at least according to the stats).

It all depends how you deploy your army and if it's spread out I can just wipe half of it and if it's packed up tight there's a chance of intermingling or nice target for the C'Tan pizza. Hell I might even put the C'Tan in the middle of your army and hoping for a critical hit on it =)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:31 pm 
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(Crabowl @ Feb. 01 2008,21:20)
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I don't since I wouldn't play with or against that list.

Did you by any chance look at the battle reports I posted about earlier?

The ones with lots of Monoliths, 2 Pylons, and multiple Phalanxes against a wide variety of opponents? ?The battles where the Necrons actually have to fight for their "lives" and sometimes wind up losing?

Your "tactical concept" seems intimidating on paper, but doesn't actually hold up in actual play. ?A "wide horseshoe" stance might be the *worst* possible deployment a Necron player could make, you'll have hardly any Monolith support at all! ?And, if the enemy goes first and puts formations on overwatch, your Warriors are going to die in droves as they come out of their Portals.

I'd highly recommend playtesting... even at 2000 points to get a taste of how the army actually plays.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Crabowl, definitely playtest it.  Even against yourself I think you would be hardpressed to make it work.  But by all means prove us wrong!  The paper counters are still over at Specialist-Games so it will cost you very little to make a 2-D Necron army.

And once we get Raiders out you'll have notes on how to build a 3-D one. :)

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:26 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Feb. 01 2008,15:38)
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If you guys can show me that multiple Monolith formations aren't going to result in the most murderous assault unit in history, go for it.

3 Monoliths ~225 points
Phalanx w/ Pariah ~300 points

vs.

Storm Serpent ~250 points
Aspect host w/ Exarchs ~350


Assuming max targets for the Monoliths...
3x7 @ 5+FF = 7 hits
6+1 (Necrons/Lord)  @ 4+FF = 3.5 hits
1 @ 3+FF = .67

Total - 11.17 hits, plus Inspiring


3x 4+FF = 1.5 hits
6x 2x4+FF (6 DAs) = 7 hits
2x 2x3+FF (2 DRs w/ Exarchs) = 2.67 hits

Total - 11.17 hits, plus 2x Inspiring

===

Obviously, there are a LOT of extraneous factors in that - who can move where, support versus directly involved, won/lost strategy, ranged fire options, Farsight triple activations v multiple portals, and so on.  Both Eldar and Necrons have some very unique abilities with a lot of impact on assaults.

However, the point is that 3 Monoliths in a formation is not completely ridiculous as far as a concept to test.

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