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Nailing it down

 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:16 am 
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he pretty much already did, in the first post. we just have to decide on what monolith formation we should choose.
thanks corey for giving ground on the pylon. look on the bright side, if it ends up not working your the only one who can say "i told you so"


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:18 am 
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not to get too far ahead of ourselves but what could possibly make the monolith more useful.... a second portal? they are already the most useful unit in the army.


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:39 pm 
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Change doc as request.

Enjoy. :D

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:51 pm 
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Quote: (mnb @ Dec. 28 2009, 21:18 )

not to get too far ahead of ourselves but what could possibly make the monolith more useful.... a second portal? they are already the most useful unit in the army.

Useful?

I'd say "nessesary" was a more appropriate description :)

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Monoliths are brilliant, why do you want to make them better?

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Quote: (corey3750 @ Dec. 28 2009, 15:51 )

Quote: (mnb @ Dec. 28 2009, 21:18 )

not to get too far ahead of ourselves but what could possibly make the monolith more useful.... a second portal? they are already the most useful unit in the army.

Useful?

I'd say "nessesary" was a more appropriate description :)

I am curious... Based on what?  Especially if there are multi-Monolith formations available, how many people will have more than 1 formation per Monolith to bring through?  How many people will actually have time to bring these formations through before the Monoliths are destroyed?

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:40 pm 
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i still don't get it. i took "useful" right from your post, corey. now you say necessary....huh? what unit in the army is more necessary then the monolith. i'm not tyring to arguementative (sp?) but i just don't understand this.


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Hasn`t the Pylons weapon the same stats as a Shadowsword Volcano Cannon in Wh40k? (120", St D, Ap2, 5"Blast)?

This would make it 90cm MW2+ TK(D3) in Epic. But because it has an AA attack the range would be -30cm (-15cm as a ground unit and a further -15cm because of the 360° fire arc):
60cm MW2+/AA2+ TK(D3)


Now that IS a Pylon and its particle accelerator. Why does the gun lose power and range when pointing to the sky??

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Mechanically in Epic weapons lose 30cm of range, but this is more of a justification IMO.  The truth be told, this is just a way of balancing the unit while staying within the parameters of the game.

As for the loss of firepower, you could say that the unit is unable to keep up with the fast moving aircraft and therefore it never achieves the high power shot it does when firing at a slower moving vehicle.

EDIT I meant 15cm loss, which of course makes the change even more odd, but still...




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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:49 pm 
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if you read the stats in raiders, you will see that it did not. much of us believed (not the army champ) that this AA shot was too powerful and wanted it downgraded. there is probably hundreds of posts on here with us bickering over that if you'd like a more in depth answer. bacically we thought it was way to powerful to bring down a landa, thawk, etc and all inside w/ just one shot.
that being said, i don't think you will find a single necron player that thinks the pylon (before or after changes) is overly powerful. it breaks way to easy..... but opponents still cry about it.


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:56 pm 
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I'm didn't say anything about improving Monoliths.

I'm just saying that Monoliths are absolutely nessesary to the army list.

After all, without Monoliths, you'd have a tough time keeping your army on the board :)

So, they are a bit more than just useful.  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Quote: (mnb @ Dec. 30 2009, 09:49 )

if you read the stats in raiders, you will see that it did not. much of us believed (not the army champ) that this AA shot was too powerful and wanted it downgraded. there is probably hundreds of posts on here with us bickering over that if you'd like a more in depth answer. bacically we thought it was way to powerful to bring down a landa, thawk, etc and all inside w/ just one shot.
that being said, i don't think you will find a single necron player that thinks the pylon (before or after changes) is overly powerful. it breaks way to easy..... but opponents still cry about it.

I'd like to comment on that.

It's not that I didn't think that shot was too powerful.  It's that I didn't think the formation was too powerful.

There's an important difference there.

My issue has always been, that while it looks good on paper, it's acutal performance on the field has never even come close to living up to that apperance, and it's only REAL utility has been to scare away WE aircraft.

I mean, a 120cm MW4+ TK(d3) sounds really ugly, until you consider it's on a 2 DC war engine that can't move, and is easily broken.  So if you want to make use of it as a ground support platform, you have to deploy it where it has the best field of fire, which only exposes it to attack and makes it more easily broken.  Baring that, you can hide it, and use it as an ineffectual AA platform, that's utterly worthless supporting your ground troops.  

In short, their actual performance on the field has never justified their cost, and I never liked the Pylon.  I would much rather have given it AA shots that were more numerous and vastly less powerful to make it a useful unit as far as AA goes, and worth the points you pay for it as an Anti-WE fire support platform.  It would have been easy to justify by saying that it fired several, lower powered shots using the same energy the "finger of death" shot would do, which would explain the reduced range and hitting power.  But I never did it because I didn't feel I had the right to radically alter a GW model. :)

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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:39 pm 
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ok, i'm completely confused. corey, basically we can disregard the comment about tweaking monoliths, correct?


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 Post subject: Nailing it down
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Quote: (mnb @ Dec. 30 2009, 12:39 )

ok, i'm completely confused. corey, basically we can disregard the comment about tweaking monoliths, correct?

you guys have confused me.

I never said anything about "tweaking" the monoliths.  I was just saying that they were nessesary units, that's all...

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