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Necrons v4.4 thoughts

 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:49 pm 
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Nicodemus: Your opinion on these matters has been heard, and certainly is being considered.

Repeating them continuously without showing any battle reports or other evidence to back it up is only doing harm to your cause.





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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:57 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 31 2008,13:46)
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Chroma. Those games are pointless when questioning about Pylon.
As
vs Eldar, no Vampires.
vs Space marines, no aircraft as "mud marine" list
vs Orks, no Landas
vs IG, no transport aircraft of any kind


Actually Hena, that was *precisely* my point! ?In that the Pylon only "breaks" an army built around a specific tactic and that *other* armies are negligibly affected by them.

Are you up for a game or two if I provide you a lists to use. Where Marine is my usual tournament like list and Necrons are something that uses several Pylons? I lack time to do this, but I can help others to try :).

I would love to try this, please send me the lists you'd like fielded and I'll see if I can rustle up an opponent! (And proxy any models I don't have!  *laugh*)

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:07 pm 
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(Chroma @ Jan. 31 2008,15:57)
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Actually Hena, that was *precisely* my point!  In that the Pylon only "breaks" an army built around a specific tactic and that *other* armies are negligibly affected by them.

And this is exactly MY point here :]
Pylon is like "karma" in MtG. Unfortunately "side-boards" are not normally supported in Epic GT.

(sorry for all who do not understand MtG analogies)


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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:47 pm 
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(rpr @ Feb. 01 2008,09:07)
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(Chroma @ Jan. 31 2008,15:57)
QUOTE
Actually Hena, that was *precisely* my point! ?In that the Pylon only "breaks" an army built around a specific tactic and that *other* armies are negligibly affected by them.

And this is exactly MY point here :]
Pylon is like "karma" in MtG. Unfortunately "side-boards" are not normally supported in Epic GT.

(sorry for all who do not understand MtG analogies)

oh, I understand them.

Here's my view on this issue:  If you walk into a tournament with a one-trick pony list you will generally get mauled.

The Air Cav Marine concept is just such a list.  You run into someone like the Eldar who can lay down flak thick enough to walk on you are going to lose a lot of your force before it hits the ground.  With a list like that even a Pylon or two actually has decent odds to down something.  And if you got waxed, you'd deserve it for running such a list.

If you are using air transports for armies like Marines, they should be delivering RESERVES.  To shore up a sagging portion of your line, to outflank your enemy, or to snatch an important objective, even to deliver the finishing blow to an important enemy formation.  Uses that are important but aren't always the making or breaking of your army.

RELYING on such a method to deploy your troops is not wise.  You'd have been better off with Planetfall, and should take the losses you bring on yourself with dignity.

I've said it before, and it bears repeating:  Do NOT expect the rules to change to fit your play style and tactics, instead adapt your playstyle and tactics to beat your opponent.  That is what makes a true War Gamer.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:53 pm 
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Nicodemus: I'm listening to you. ?And I understand your point. ?I dislike adding special rules myself.

But put yourself in my position, working under these directives:

You Cannot have the War Engines as Walkers.
They cannot repeat the defensive methods of other races.
They cannot be air or anti air capable
they must fit into the general mold of the Necron background (i.e. use technology that is directly mentioned or extropolated from such mentioned technology)
they cannot be a "clone" of another titan (as in they cannot have the same stats, abilitie and weapons but with different names, or even too similar).


Now, tell me what YOU come up with.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:46 pm 
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Heh, actually with those restrictions I dont see any reasons why living metal should be included, I would go for 1-3 monolith (maybe 2-3) per formations with option for Obelisks (so they could provide cover for monoliths) and would try to use deployment, movement and terrain to keep them alive. And would blame myself for putting monolith in open to be shot apart by Volcano Cannon toting Warlord, just like with any other army.

Pylon is trickier. Maybe I would go for 2*AA4+ 60cm, 2 (3?) dc and hard to say about points. Definedly would leave MW/TK out.

I have not had any difficulties keeping my 6 DC RA4+ Plague Towers alive, so hard to belive that it would be harder with INV save. So I would give little price drop to every WE, or 1-2 DC more and go for it.

I dont say it would be easy to win with necrons like that.



But okay, I have figured something out. This list is seen so close to be complete that no big change is wanted. Too bad (for me and few other) that it differs from what I (we?) would like get from it. Bad thing is that I really thought that people would be ready to think it from other perspective in this late hour of development (and luckily corey even was! Kudos for you). Bad thing too is that this is first topic ever where I have been called liar, you cant really go more personally than that.

I have always thought that it is very strange that theory does not matter in these boards, and is even disregarded and dissed. I am fan of deductive reasoning, when here seems empirism be only legal way of thinking. I think both are needed, but here you even call me liar just because I see no reason to boost my deductive reasoning with empirism.


So now I shall make my retreat from this topic before somebody goes from calling me liar to something even nastier. You can have your necrons just the way you want, hopefully making someone feel this bad was really worth it all. Hopefully I never make again the mistake to try and participate. I leave you alone, please leave me too. So please dont give me any more dissing, you already got what you wanted.

Sorry corey3750 if I spoke harsly of you/to you. You proved to be willing to try and see things differently, so thanks for that.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Just because you have the transports in your list, does not require you to deploy your troops on those transports.  They can be placed on the table with everything else you deploy.

Termies don't even need a Thunderhawk, the teleport!

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:43 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Jan. 31 2008,17:47)
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I have nothing against very good AA. I have against underpriced such.
Other armies much pay huge amounts to get some decent change to drop a Thawk or Landa before it makes its drop. Necrons pay 200 for 33% chance (anywhere at the board), or 400 for 58% chance to drop all arriving THawks (not just one, all of them).

Make pylon a 550 point thing taken from 1/3 reserve and I will shut up =] For that, they could have DC 4 and some extra (non-AA) attacks.

(well actually I will anyway, just give my opinion here but the viewpoints are so far away from each other that we will never reach any compromise)


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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:47 pm 
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Personally I would love a huge mama Pylon with a DC4.  Of course then you really would be sorry that you asked for it.  Teleport that bad boy anywhere you want and it would have some staying power.  Back it up with some supporting formations and it just might become the brute everyone thinks the regular Pylon is.  :)

RPR, I think your idea is not so suitable for the Pylon but I really like the idea of yet another monstrous War Engine for the Necrons (just as a variant unit or a one-off).  What did you have in mind for the stats?

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:52 pm 
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How about this?

0-1 Gauss Pylon Network
2 Pylons 500pts + 300pts each for up to 3 additional Pylons

Comes from the 1/3 allowance for war engines.





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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:10 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Feb. 01 2008,15:52)
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How about this?

0-1 Gauss Pylon Network
2 Pylons 500pts + 300pts each for up to 3 additional Pylons

Comes from the 1/3 allowance for war engines.

??? 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:33 pm 
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Yes. Imperial Armour Apocalypse say 2-5 Pylons per Gauss Pylon Network on the datasheet :D

But it will cost 1400pts if you take all 5 Pylons ;)

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