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corey3750
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Post subject: List version 4.1 is available  Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:56 pm |
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Thanks all.
I think the idea of putting the First Strike on the Scythe is an excellent idea. 
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Chroma
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Post subject: List version 4.1 is available Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:06 am |
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| Quote (corey3750 @ 07 June 2006 (23:56)) | | I think the idea of putting the First Strike on the Scythe is an excellent idea. ? |
Well, as it now stands with first strike on all attacks, The Nightbringer vs a Warlord Titan would have 3 normal attacks, 8 MW attacks, and 2 TK(d3) attacks at CC3+... all before the Warlord, if it even survived!, would be able to respond... that is pretty dang brutal for 300 points...
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Ilushia
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Post subject: List version 4.1 is available Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:24 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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| Quote (Chroma @ 08 June 2006 (00:06)) | | Quote (corey3750 @ 07 June 2006 (23:56)) | | I think the idea of putting the First Strike on the Scythe is an excellent idea. ? |
Well, as it now stands with first strike on all attacks, The Nightbringer vs a Warlord Titan would have 3 normal attacks, 8 MW attacks, and 2 TK(d3) attacks at CC3+... all before the Warlord, if it even survived!, would be able to respond... that is pretty dang brutal for 300 points... |
The Nightbringer would have to be quite lucky to actually kill the warlord in that (On average he'd only do about 3 DC with his Gaze, so both scythes would have to hit and do 2-3 damage each, plus some normal hits if they only do 2 each) and he'll take 1-2 in return. Moving First Strike to the scythe seems a good idea. Also remember that he's almost worthless outside an assault. Is he very very good at an assault compared to other 300 point items? Definitely. But given he has virtually no ability to do much of anything when not assaulting, you'd expect him to be. Heirophants are 250 points in the Tyranid list, with almost 3x his DC, plus regeneration, and they have 2 TK D3 attacks in melee, same melee stat lines, same saves, faster movement. And they get a MW 5+ breath-weapon which can cover a huge area. Nightbringer has to get to melee to do anything meaningful.
But yes, putting the first strike on the scythe would likely work just fine. Let him get some nasty damage in against titans and wipe out a stand or two before they can hit him.
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Hojyn
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Post subject: List version 4.1 is available Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:26 am |
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| Quote (Hena @ 07 June 2006 (19:25)) | | At 6DC the Orb and Abbatoir are quite hard enough to kill I think. Considering that a single hit can only cause one damage. |
Hard to kill yes, but quite easy to break.
For the Orb, it's not that big of a problem as it will usually be hiding behind a hill or something.
But the Abattoir must move towards the enemy or you'll just have wasted 750 points. So it will usually be a very tempting target and be broken before it can reach CC. Remember that, unlike Titans, it has no shields, and even if it virtually ignores MW and TK shots, it will be taken down relatively easily by lots of AT fire (isn't that paradoxical, by the way?). Hence my 8DC proposal to give it just that little extra toughness, giving it a chance to reach CC.
I think the idea of putting the First Strike on the Scythe is an excellent idea. |
Me too. ?
The Nightbringer [is] almost worthless outside an assault. Is he very very good at an assault compared to other 300 point items? Definitely. But given he has virtually no ability to do much of anything when not assaulting, you'd expect him to be. Heirophants are 250 points in the Tyranid list, with almost 3x his DC, plus regeneration, and they have 2 TK D3 attacks in melee, same melee stat lines, same saves, faster movement. And they get a MW 5+ breath-weapon which can cover a huge area. Nightbringer has to get to melee to do anything meaningful.
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Sure, but unlike other CC monsters like the Hierophants or the Abattoir, the Nightbringer can teleport, which guarantees he will get to melee.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: List version 4.1 is available Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:50 am |
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Hojyn: You have a point about the teleportation (Then again he's also slower then any of them are... So once he teleports in he has to break to get phase-out and re-teleport unless the enemy is fairly tightly packed). But I'd agree with moving the First Strike to the scythe. That'd fit... He'd be a bomb-shell opponent, with a reasonable chance of taking down almost anything you throw him against... But he's gonna risk going down with it, since it only on average takes something like 12 hits to kill him. Sounds like a good deal to me. The question then becomes where he'll do the most damage with the minimum risk. He'd be great for paving the way for things like the Abottoire assaulting into enemy titans (Assault their meat-shield infantry unit, kill off the infantry, le tthe abottoire kill the Titan). But he's likely to get stomped by most Titans, even if he does manage to take them with him.
Both his Gaze of Death and the Monolith's particle cannon things are insanely powerful around War Engines, which has worried me a bit (Being an AMTL player), but probably isn't too bad most of the time. Especially the Monolith being FF 5+, and needing to Firefight to use it, so it has to peel off shields first.
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Miner
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Post subject: List version 4.1 is available Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:40 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:36 pm
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| Quote (Chroma @ 08 June 2006 (00:06)) | | Quote (corey3750 @ 07 June 2006 (23:56)) | | I think the idea of putting the First Strike on the Scythe is an excellent idea. |
Well, as it now stands with first strike on all attacks, The Nightbringer vs a Warlord Titan would have 3 normal attacks, 8 MW attacks, and 2 TK(d3) attacks at CC3+... all before the Warlord, if it even survived!, would be able to respond... that is pretty dang brutal for 300 points... |
So you have to shoot it down.
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