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Necrons v4.4 thoughts
Otterman
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:36 pm 
I rarely comment on rules, simply because of lack of background knowledge.

But, I have played a dozen Necron vs. SM fights in 40K with Nephew-B, and can attest that 6) and 7) are relevant and fitting for Wraiths.
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tv1013
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:17 pm 
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Issue 1: ?The Destroyers are already too effective -- a points reduction to 300 would probably neccessitate a reduction in the formation size.

Issue 2: ?For what it's worth, I'm currently playing a game with Heavy Destroyers at +10 per model and 2x AT4, making a formation of Heavy Destroyers 410 points. ?If the point increase is +15 points per Destroyer, and stay at 1x AT4, no one will ever take them.

Yes, that's 12 AT4 shots, but at 410 points, they're almost always a very fragile BTS goal because I don't run the Abattoir or Aenoic Orb. ?I was able to use them to help take down 2 Warhound Titans, but lost them in response.

I wasn't able to take a Leader upgrade on the Heavy Destroyers either because of my list -- wasn't enough points because the 60 points in upgrades really ate into the list.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:50 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 28 2008,17:07)
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My problem is that there are players not willing to play against them. I have been forced to disallow them in last tournament so that players come.

But it only takes *two* Blast markers to take the Pylon out of the action... how is this so difficult for people to manage?

When they teleport in, they roll 2d6 for Blast markers, and, unluckily for me, almost always seem to get one. ?Then all it takes is some Scouts or Rangers or other "light" shooting unit to nullify the Pylon.

If you shoot at a Pylon and manage to do even *one* point of damage, it's out of action for the turn.

A flight of eight Orky Fighta-Bommerz (400 points) should easily be able to nulify 2 Pylons (400 points), just as an example. ?Any other 200 points of ground forces should be able to do the same before the Air Cav shows up... why does this seem so hard for the players in your area to figure out?

Are people maxing out five Pylons in 3000 point games or something?

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:11 pm 
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Tje roblem with reducing the range on the pylon is that it is cited as being able to shoot into low orbit as well as track low flying aircraft.  Tje 120cm range shows that it has potential to rech into orbit.  75cm doesn't.

On the Wriaths (I don't have the rules in front of me and I am just going from this updat).  Shouldn't they just have:

note: Wraiths never make any dangerous terrain checks, but may not end thier move within impassable terrain.

Instead of jumppack/skimmer

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:16 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 28 2008,18:39)
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Besides that Ork flight of 8 planes can stop one Pylon as they cannot attack two at the same time...


I meant more over the course of the game, not in a single turn.

Pylons range changed to 75cm and then you can actually enter the board.

They can still teleport anywhere they want and two Pylons at 75cm can *still* cover the entire battlefield with overlapping fields of fire.

All I'm saying is that, in actual play experience, Pylons have only been a *threat*, not an effective unit.  Once the initial Necron attacks were made, the Pylons are mopped up/nullified in the next turn and air assaults/ground attacks can proceed with impunity.  With the current non-auto rally for Necrons, opponents get some breathing space to deal with them.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:29 pm 
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In point of fact, it is vastly more dangerous to launch an air attack into an Eldar army than it is to attack in the face of 2 pylons.

It's more dangerous to do so into a Tau army as well.

If a pylon has intimidated a player into not bringing his planes on the field, then good for you and shame on your opponent.

Also keep in mind that pylons have to fill in for AA as well as for Air Craft.  And it's a pretty damn expensive, limited utility, easily broken unit.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Pylons are really, really not that good. I've never, ever managed to get off more than one shot a game with them.

Hena: If you're trying to send planes after a pylon then more fool you. Shoot it with some cheap support formations and break it, THEN bring the planes in to bomb it into submission. It's the best tactic against pylons, and it always works.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Yeah, there are plenty of reasons to disqualify the Necrons - you don't need to use the Pylons to do that. :)

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Corey: I think the changes to the destroyers are the most questionable here. Destroyers are certainly not underpriced currently, and to drop them by 50 points makes them much too good.

Also, can you confirm that you intend to upgun the heavy destroyers if you make them cost more than normal ones?

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:48 am 
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(zombocom @ Jan. 29 2008,15:24)
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Corey: I think the changes to the destroyers are the most questionable here. Destroyers are certainly not underpriced currently, and to drop them by 50 points makes them much too good.

Also, can you confirm that you intend to upgun the heavy destroyers if you make them cost more than normal ones?

yes, I was intending to restore them and then take a price increase on them.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:50 am 
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(Moscovian @ Jan. 29 2008,15:06)
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Yeah, there are plenty of reasons to disqualify the Necrons - you don't need to use the Pylons to do that. :)

thanks a lot

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:03 am 
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As a note for the 'why are 'cron war engine crits so bad', thing: I don't know how many people realize it... But the rules for their crits call for BP attacks. INCLUDING multiple hits on any war engines under the center hole (And as it's centered directly ontop of the war engine, that means them!). Meaning an Aeonic Orb doesn't hit itself ONCE, but THREE times! That's a roughly 75% chance to take an extra immediate point of damage off a single critical. I have, indeed, seen these things die horribly from killing themselves due to a chain-reaction. I've also seen Imperial titans (My Imperator in this case) suffer something like SIX crits in 1 round, and none of them do ANYTHING to it! So, I don't have much of an issue with the Necron crits being 'not strong enough', really. The fact that most races have crits which never have a chance to do nothing is rather silly IMHO, at least on titan-class items (Super heavy tanks should really just die from crits, they're just not awesome enough!)
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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:11 am 
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(Moscovian @ Jan. 28 2008,11:56)
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Nicodemus, in my experience and from reading the boards, the big complaints ?NEVER include living metal or Pylons. ?

Living metal is just special rule for the sake of special rule and to beef up pet-monolits. It is not needed. Every time I see special rule I want very good reasons why it cant be handled any other way, and living metal can. We have RA and we even have WE.

Necrons have that regeneration (necron? special rule) and I honestly cant figure other way to represent that. So we have special rule that "is needed".

Pylons are big thing in Finland, just because something is not said thousand times in forums does not mean it is not true/it does not happen. And you said that you have never seen big complaints about Living metal or pylons, well consider this then the first one.

_

My marines never have two extra activations to take out pylons when you have your own deployment zone full of necrons. Smart necron will deploy his pylons so that only thing that is able to hit them is aircraft, that is just the thing they are made to shoot out of sky. My marines have normally 1 or 2 T/hawks and 2 Thunderbolt.

No army have "spare 2 (any) activation". Even less they have so fast/so long ranged "spare 2 (any) activation" that could "just break" those paper tigers.

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