you made a few suggestions corey, what would you like to see the pylon stats at if they were in a formation?

sorry guys if I've trodden on any toes, looks like another "Matt-has-foot-in-mouth" situation.

so, from my newbie perspective, and something Corey seems to be getting at, the main problem with AA in the Necron list is that there is only ONE AA capable formation. Every other list has a variety of aircraft and ground based AA that are relatively easy to balance, both internally and externally (which has a degree of importance, however much it may sound like pandering). The Necrons have just the Pylon, so trying to find some way to a) give the Necrons the ability to take decent AA cover and b) make sure it isn't so overpowered as to render all air strategies perilous, seems to be near impossible.

Therefore, if that is the case, is there any option to "invent" another, AA capable unit/fm/upgrade? There are plenty of balanced precedents in other lists to use as a template, though I have no idea of suitable names/ units etc from the fluff. I can't see any reason why you can't have both "Orbital denial pylons" (with current stats) and "airspace denial pylons" (with corey's suggested stats or others) and then adjust the price to suit the fm and balance. Alot of extra work, sure, but this seems to be something that's been simmering for a loooong time, so worth tackling.

All in my humble opinion of course

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numquam culum es

well, I can see the issue for some people with Mutiple pylons... Of course I can cast more if I need to since I made a resin mold.  

So either a formation of up to 3 models with the gun having a dual mode:

120cm  MW4+  TK(1)
90cm   AA MW4+

Let's say 150 points for a single, and 100 points for each extra added to the formation, up to a max of 2 extra.  For a total of 350


Or, a less expensive single unit formation with 3-4 DC and stats like:

120cm  MW4+  TK(d3)
90cm   3x AA MW4+

Call it a 300 point model.

The first would be an all around more effective formation.  It would represent a significant threat to ground forces and be able to do actual damage to Air craft.

The Second would be a threat only to WE ground targets, but equally dangerous to air targets.

In both cases the formation's fire would be far more survivable for any WE flyers with RA, which would at least give them a save.  Your average fighter or bomber would be evaporated.

Such a formation should be strictly limited of course, and the costs would be open to adjustment of course.

There's no reason that it would have to be tested right away.  Mostly because I'd like to see suggestions on what kind of cost the altered formation should have.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

You've pretty much put your finger on the problem.

However, adding a completely new model to the mix is impractical at this stage.

I've always been of the opinion that every Titan (or titan like WE) should have built in AA... I mean you got something with that kind of elevation, you'd be crazy NOT to put AA capability on it.. and they are usually described in fiction as having AA.


Expanding some of the existing things to give them AA might not be a bad idea.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Corey, what's wrong with this:


120cm, MW4+, Titan Killer(D3)
90cm, AA4+, Titan Killer


Price 200pts

+1-2 Pylons to the formation for +150pts each.



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What I've written above appears to be what the community is asking for (two small changes, or "nudges"), and has the benefit of not greatly "messing" with the weapon or DC stats.

Certainly it is less dramatic a change than the stats you've been suggesting above.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

nothing's WRONG with it per se.

It's just... well if the source of the complaints is really about how easily it swats transports from the sky, wouldn't leaving TK on it just make it that much easier?

I mean, with MW, it's effective against normal aircraft, and those transports with RA at least get a save against it.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

The source of complaints is that the D3 will tend to kill DC2 aircraft 66% of the time, not that it's a powerful shot, IMHO.

The consensus of the community appears to be strongly behind reducing the D3 on the AA shot down to (1) and reducing its range down to 90cm, not reducing it to MW status like you're proposing. Especially not "reducing" it to having 3x 90cm MW shots like you propose(!).

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Actually, it's only a 33% Chance.  You've only got a 50% hit chance.

Having it reduced further would enhance the survival of transports and increase effectiveness against other types of aircraft all at once.  Is this not better?

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Of course, I was implying that the weapon had already hit.


In reducing the kill rate against well armoured multi-DC aircraft (Thunderhawks and Landing Craft) your proposed stat (3x MW3+) radically increases the kill rate against multi-aircraft formations...

...effectively ruling out the use of all other aircraft types.


So one important tactic you can use currently to take down Pylons (sending in bombers or fighters in formations to strafe the pylon and damage it/lay a BM, for the cost of one or more aircraft in the formation) is removed... in essence your proposed stat is a large power upgrade for the Pylon because you can no longer "swarm" your way through the AA umbrella.

So no, it's not a downgrade as you seem to think it is, it's a large power upgrade.


Then perhaps it's a good solution.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I didn't regard it as a power downgrade, just a shift in focus where it's power would lie.

It would be a downgrade against WE flyers, but an upgrade against regular flyers.

In any case, your suggestion does it just as well with fewer figures (and changes), I'm just not sure that it really NEEDS to be a TK AA shot.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

The 40k stats support it.
The background supports it.
The community seems to support it.

Why change what ain't contentious?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

fair enough.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Heyho my dearest undead mates ,

being a new necron-player i'd like to join the discussions about the list.
Please forgive me when i'm not familiar with all the discussions so far, i treid to get an overview, but i haven't read every single post in the necron subforum.

So there seems to be an agreement on the pylon stats and formation, right?

Have you agreed on the Monolith formation as well? The discussion on page two seems a bit discontinued.

all the changes can be found in the first post on this thread. the monolith changes are yet to be agreed upon but i've been playing w/ 200 pts for 1 M and 2 O/ 275 for 3 M and it's been fine.
the only changes we are trying to nail down are the pylon (which i'm sure you noticed if you read a few posts here). what's your opinion on the pylon?

keep in mind:  The Pylon adjustments we are discussing right now are for the future... not the imeadiate changes for the update.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus