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Necrons 4.3
zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:24 pm 
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There's always the possibility of a total rethink on how monoliths work...

For example, cut their firefight  down to EA+1 or 2, and have them in formations of 3 ala Apocalypse. Might need a rethink on their portals in that case though.

Just an idea of course, not even a well thought out one, but we should think outside the box.

If you really think they're bust, the best solution is so disallow the use of broken portals. I know it goes against the eldar rule, but it really does instantly make it more attractive to take obelisks.




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Corey, barring a points increase there isn't much left on the table.  You could restrict the Monoliths to 1 per Phalanx but I seem to recall that was either proposed or tried and was eventually taken away.
Aside from a points increase?  That would make taking the formations in the way they should be virtually impossible.

I don't understand this- can you clarify please?  I know that your earlier comments suggested that a points increase would encourage a popcorn army but I just don't see that.  After sinking 100 points per Monolith I don't want to watch it take EVERY AT hit.  Looking at Chroma's batrep the Monoliths died like flies.  Heck, even taking one Obelisk cuts the hit allocations in half and three means that you take only 25% of the hits being thrown at you in one volley.  You can give back to the Necron player via an Obelisk discount and things are right back to where they should be.

For the record I'm not to keen on a +3 extra attacks for the Monolith (proposed by E&C) as it will actually increase the average number of hits during a FF and eliminate clipping assaults as a viable method of breaking monoliths.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:49 pm 
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you only have so many points.

It's harder to pay for 4 100 point units than it is to pay for 4 75 point units.  It's a 100 point difference.  

That's a lot of points in a list.

I'd like to see a game played with a more sensible Monolith formation instead of Popcorn.  See how the game plays out.

Then perhaps try with a formation that consists of 3 Monoliths.  I'm not fond of the idea mind you, but it is at least justified by 40k.

If I go that route, there can be the Monolith formation, and you can buy extra Monoliths which cost more individually.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:55 pm 
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I would happily see the points go up to 100 actually.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:11 pm 
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I understand it is a lot of points and that is the point.  Forbidding the lone Monoliths makes players upset and avoids the fluff and blah blah blah.  Players should be able to take lone Monoliths but be prepared to pay a premium.  Increasing the price to 100 wouldn't eliminate lone monoliths from the game, just make them less attractive.  People may want to have some reinforced monoliths and then have an extra 100 points left over and say, "Yeah, I could use another Monolith."  
IF people are playing a normal list with reincorced Monoliths using that 100/40/40/40 would break down to a 5 point discount.  100/40/40 would be a 5 point increase (nominal), and a 100/40 would be a 15 point increase.  This point change would not significantly affect most lists.
Anyway, I PM'd you some other stuff. I'm good with whatever change you make. I just would like things stable come Christmas. :)

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:04 pm 
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Justifying the existence of mandatory obelisks is simple: In large scale battles Necrons consider Monoliths to be too important to field without escorts, as they are a  key part of the Necron offensive. As such, when engaged in large-scale battles they are always seen with accompanying obelisks, though in smaller raids may be deployed individually. There, you now have justification for Obelisks which doesn't claim that Monoliths are dependent on their existence or directly linked to them in any way. Just that they are fielded as a cohesive unit on this scale.
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rpr
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:47 pm 
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(I just started reading Necron army list as possible future army for my collection..)
AA 4+ 120cm TK?? Shuts down all but largest flight formations?
I only wonder why does Necrons have such a 5x better AA than any other army...
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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:50 pm 
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(rpr @ Nov. 12 2007,13:47)
QUOTE
(I just started reading Necron army list as possible future army for my collection..)
AA 4+ 120cm TK?? Shuts down all but largest flight formations?
I only wonder why does Necrons have such a 5x better AA than any other army...

So far, in 3 games... my Pylons have shot down *one* aircraft.

As 2DC War Engines they are *easy* to suppress and render completely ineffective.  Don't be scared of the "paper tiger", it nothing much in actual play.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:51 pm 
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Because Pylons are that awesome in 40k.

Background-wise, if they hit, they tend to fry whatever was targetted.


EDIT:

Chroma's right about surpression, you can lay a pair of BM's on them, and then zip in with your aircraft.




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:46 pm 
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I haven't been terribly wow'd by the Pylon's AA.  It is a single shot.  Even if you had two of them the liklihood is that something is getting through.  As pointed out they break quite easily with no way to reinforce them.  Their main uses are Titan killers and distracting the enemy.

The recent batreps from Chroma are certainly indicating some improvement in the Necron army (well actually a worsening, which is better - you know what I mean!).  Can't wait for batrep #3... :)

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:15 pm 
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actually, their main use is intimidating the enemy into never bringing his aircraft (particularly air assault units) onto the board at all :)

The fact you can use them to take the occasional pot shot at titans is a bonus :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:18 pm 
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(corey3750 @ Nov. 12 2007,15:15)
QUOTE
actually, their main use is intimidating the enemy into never bringing his aircraft (particularly air assault units) onto the board at all :)

Once the enemy realizes that they only *look* scary, well, then the attacks come raining down!  *laugh*

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:24 pm 
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I've sometimes sent a pair of Thunderbolt fighters at a Pylon, knowing that one of them is likely to be blatted out of the sky, but knowing that I'll break the Pylon and free up the airspace for my other aircraft...

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:53 pm 
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yes, the Pylons are a poor AA in reality.  Of course few people ever look at reality.  They look at the stats and go "Oh my God!"

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necrons 4.3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:53 pm 
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Two Pylons on the other hand...

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