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4.1.1 A Playtester Review

epilgrim

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:11 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

I have to say that I do not mind playing against the Necrons. I have not won to date, but I do not base my losses on the list alone, after all I was there and I threw my own dice. So I still intend to beat them eventually.

Here are my reactions and analysis so far...

Necron Special Rules

Implacable Advance
Do they actually need the +1 to Marshal actions given that they have a base initiative of 1+? I don?t really see the need for it because even it they fail they will be able to re-group/repair. I realize that occasionally a formation breaks when attempting to activate, but that is part of the risk of the game and also one of those do-or-die events that highlight what the Supreme Commander re-roll is for. It seems too advantageous to deny the opponent the effort that goes into applying blast markers only to have them automatically removed with no risk to the Necron player.

Phase Out
Should Fearless units phase out or to be more specific should formations made up entirely of Fearless units phase out? Should formations that Teleport also benefit from Phase Out?

These two questions are important as Fearless units shrug off most of the negative effects of Blast Markers and for that matter being Broken, and Teleport formations just wink out and come right back with no negative effects ready to start up elsewhere, usually bringing the rest of the army with them.

I have no problem with formations made up of Fearless and non-Fearless units phasing out as the core rules dictate that Fearless units must maintain coherency if their formation breaks. Currently a formation that is made up of all Fearless units fall into the same category of the rest of the army for phasing out, but should they be able to do this each turn or should this be a tie-breaker condition?

Teleporting units, especially those that are Fearless and more particularly Monolith and Obelisk formations can appear anywhere, tie up enemy formations with the Obelisk Scout ZOC, usher Necron troops into the area, even if broken, through the Monolith Portal only to vanish and appear next turn elsewhere unscathed ready to repeat the process. I do recognize that like anything else these units can be killed, but the combination of Teleport, Fearless, Scout, Portal, Phase Out is completely undervalued in this current list. Is it Broken? I honestly don?t think that Fearless, Scout is a good combo (to my knowledge it does not occur anywhere else in Epic Armageddon), but if a serious look is taken at the points cost that may solve the problem I see.

The Necron Army Units

Tomb Spyder - I read the design notes on the Tomb Spyder and I see the reasons behind its classification as an AV, but I sort of viewed it as a LV with a 4+, or maybe a 5+ reinforced, I also think it is too pricey in context with the rest of the army.

The Abattoir ? Given its base move of 20cm I really don?t think Infiltrate, combined with a CC 2+ , 6 base attacks, 3 Ignore Cover attacks and 3 TK (d3) attacks, defended by Fearless, Living Metal and Thick Rear Armour is altogether correct, given that it can dish out a world of hurt and survive heaping amounts of abuse. I would like to think that it can do just fine without Infiltrate, at least cut its move to 15cm.

Critical Effects ? A common issue with the critical effects in this list is the over-use of radius effects with automatic hits or potential hits that tend to cause more damage to the opponent than to the Necron WE due to the Living Metal rule. The Critical effects should be reviewed to inject a little variety and a tendency for the Necron WE to automatically suffer some degradation or additional damage as a result of criticals rather than what amounts to the opponent facing an assault that is a pyrrhic victory.

The Monolith - This unit is fine except for cost, to be honest it should cost about 125, if it could not phase out then 100 points would be ok. I would also suggest allowing them in formations of 1 or 2 (with obelisk as guards) regardless of the cost.

The Obelisk ? This unit is the most problematic. After having played against them as Fearless Scouts they have grossly out-stripped their costs. Rather than being comparable to a MBT in any other list this is the penultimate tank. First I do not think Fearless Scouts is a good combo as I note above. They can break, remain in place and obligate the opponent to Assault or move away. I have not problem with them having one, but not both, I would suggest Scout, but Fearless works better for the Monolith when they guard it.

Cost for them is a huge problem, currently they are 50 points, but in fact they should be closer to 125 points given their powerful mix of abilities.

If they were Skimmer, Teleport with Scout or Fearless then 50 points would be fine. If you added Reinforced they need to go to 75 points each. I don?t think they need Thick Rear Armour in either suggested configuration, unless the idea of them not phasing out was something people were willing to entertain.

The Necron Army List
The Infantry formations and their upgrades are very on target, but I would recommend a redistribution of costs based on the individual capabilities of each unit. I think the WE formations are fine within the context of my notes above.

Phalanx 250 points (+25)
? 0 ? 3 Tomb Spyders +60 points each (-15 each)
? 0 ? 1 Pariah +50 points (+10)
? 0 ? 2 Wraiths +50 points each (no change)
? 0 ? 3 Immortals +45 points each (+5 each)
(The net change for a complete formation is +5 points)

Venator 225 points (+25)
? 0 ? 1 Necron Lord +25 points (no change)
? 0 ? 3 Tomb Spyders +60 points each (-15 each)
? 0 ? 1 Pariah +50 points (+10)
? 0 ? 3 Wraiths +50 points each (no change)
(The net change for a complete formation is -10 points)

Eques 375 points for 6 Destroyers (+25)
OR
Eques 325 points for 5 Destroyers (-25)
OR
Eques 250 points for 4 Destroyers (-100)
? 0 ? 1 Necron Lord +25 points (no change)
? 0 ? 3 Wraiths +50 points each (no change)
? Replace any number of DEST with Hvy DEST free (no change)
(The net change for a complete formation of six is +25 points)

Obelisk Recon 450 for 6 Obelisks (revised profile, +150) OR
Obelisk Recon 300 for 4 Obelisks (revised profile, no cost change)
(The net change for a complete formation of six is +150 points)

Monolith 125 points (+50 each)
? 0-3 Obelisks +75 points each (+25 each)
AND/OR
Monolith Pairing (2) 200 points
? 0-4 Obelisks +300 points

Thank you for all the work to date on the Necrons, this list shows a great deal of well thought out rules and units.

Ep

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epilgrim

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:39 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Hena,

Please re-read my post. I was not de-crying Phase Out as a rule, nor what happens to Fearless units when mixed in formations with non-Fearless units, my concerns rest primarily with the Monolith and the Obelisk, which as I said are undervalued, and the Obelisk which has a problematic combination of abilities (IMO).

As far as the cost adjustments, these are based on seeing these units in action, comparing them against similar units and keeping them in line relative to the list on its own.

Hence why a Tomb Spyder is no where near the value of a Monolith, and in my opinion should be a LV with 4+ or 5+ RA at 60 points. As presented in 4.1.1 it is more or less a 2nd line tank with Fearless and Leader. While Leader is useful if the formation is unbroken, Fearless is only useful if the unit it is with is wiped out. Tactically speaking, wiping out their infantry is a priority for any Necron opponent, since that is the bulk of any Necron army which in turn reduces the possible effectiveness of the Tomb Spyder overall.

Venators: Like any other Teleporting CC troop they have to be used properly (and I have seen it first hand ?

thanks Corey!). Based on a comparision of all troops with a similar profile, and in context of this army they are a wee bit under-priced.

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epilgrim

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:25 pm

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Hena,

thanks for the re-read. I see your points, and I also think we are in agreement on the points you raised.

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Hojyn

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:50 pm

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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
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Location: Brest - France

(epilgrim @ Sep. 24 2006,01:11)

QUOTE

Implacable Advance
Do they actually need the +1 to Marshal actions given that they have a base initiative of 1+?

Well, I don't know if they need it, but this rule is rather nice and gives character to the army.

Also, don't forget that if you Marshall, you can just move once or shoot. Since Necrons are slow and "unshooty" to the extreme, it basically means they're doing nothing else. I have no problems with it.

Phase Out
Should Fearless units phase out or to be more specific should formations made up entirely of Fearless units phase out? Should formations that Teleport also benefit from Phase Out?

This one is more problematic. While Phase Out works fine for most of the army, the main problem comes from the Monolith.

Ideally, Necron players want their Monoliths to end the turn Broken in order to use them. This leads to the rather paradoxical situation where the best course of action for the opponent is to simply ignore the Monoliths (since they're so slow and so hard to destroy anyway).

One possible solution to this would be to add some rule saying that Monolith can always phase out at the end of a turn, Broken or not, but can not come back the following turn.

I do recognize that like anything else these units can be killed, but the combination of Teleport, Fearless, Scout, Portal, Phase Out is completely undervalued in this current list. Is it Broken? I honestly don?t think that Fearless, Scout is a good combo (to my knowledge it does not occur anywhere else in Epic Armageddon), but if a serious look is taken at the points cost that may solve the problem I see.

My opinion exactly. Monolith and Obelisks are way too cheap at the moment.

Tomb Spyder - I read the design notes on the Tomb Spyder and I see the reasons behind its classification as an AV, but I sort of viewed it as a LV with a 4+, or maybe a 5+ reinforced, I also think it is too pricey in context with the rest of the army.

As an AV (and even an LV) amongst Infantry units, it is too vulnerable and thus too expensive to be worth taking. I think it should either be made Infantry or cost less. Not both, though, because Leader is very powerful in a Necron army.

The Abattoir ? Given its base move of 20cm I really don?t think Infiltrate, combined with a CC 2+ , 6 base attacks, 3 Ignore Cover attacks and 3 TK (d3) attacks, defended by Fearless, Living Metal and Thick Rear Armour is altogether correct, given that it can dish out a world of hurt and survive heaping amounts of abuse. I would like to think that it can do just fine without Infiltrate, at least cut its move to 15cm.

I beg to differ.
The TK attacks are CC only and the Abattoir FF value is only 4+, so you NEED to get in base-to-base contact or all you'll have are 9 FF4+ attacks... Which is ridiculously weak for a 750 points war engine.
IF you get in CC, then it's a killer, but with only 40cm in charge, good luck getting there. Sure Living Metal is great for not dying, but with only 6 DC, the Abattoir is easily Broken. I've said it before, but I think it should either cost less (not going to happen) or have 8 DC (making it more resilient and a bit better in assaults... where it should RULE, since it's about the only thing it can do).

Critical Effects ? A common issue with the critical effects in this list is the over-use of radius effects with automatic hits or potential hits that tend to cause more damage to the opponent than to the Necron WE due to the Living Metal rule.

Is that really a problem? I rather like it, actually. Necron engines use barely contained energy, the Criticals give some idea of the power Necrons wield.

The Monolith - This unit is fine except for cost, to be honest it should cost about 125, if it could not phase out then 100 points would be ok. I would also suggest allowing them in formations of 1 or 2 (with obelisk as guards) regardless of the cost.

True. Monoliths are too cheap. 100 points would be nice, I think. Especially with some kind of limiting rule concerning their Teleportation ability (hint: see my proposal above :;):

).

The Obelisk ? This unit is the most problematic. After having played against them as Fearless Scouts they have grossly out-stripped their costs. Rather than being comparable to a MBT in any other list this is the penultimate tank. First I do not think Fearless Scouts is a good combo as I note above. They can break, remain in place and obligate the opponent to Assault or move away. I have not problem with them having one, but not both, I would suggest Scout, but Fearless works better for the Monolith when they guard it.

Obelisks are getting better by the minute, it seems. First they get Scout, then they get 4+RA... Please, stop the madness!

For 50 points, they are waaay too good. They should go back to 5+RA, lose either Fearless or Scout and cost 75 points.

The Necron Army List

Apart from the proposed changes above, I don't think any other points changes are in order at the moment. Something really needs to be done about Obelisks and Monoliths, but the rest is OK, I think.

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epilgrim

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:30 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Hojyn,

Thanks also for your response!

Implacable advance: Personally I think Blast Markers are a hallmark of this game, so any army getting an automatic activation even with a BM is a bad thing in my opinion. 16% of failure is not much to ask, especially when the formation can regroup even if it fails, so I can't agree here.

Phase Out: 2 other ideas that would probably be badly received would be to treat Phased Out formations like Aircraft w/BM when the attempt to activate, OR allow them to activate as rallied formations (1/2 BM -1 per leader).

As per aircraft a formation with numerous BM would be impossible to activate, but they would come on with no BM in the next turn.

If they come on as per rallied formations they can activate at a -1 but still have the advantage of coming on anywhere.

Teleporting and Fearless formation phasing might be fixed that way, but raising the points seems the more likely path.

Monloith and Obelisk: Glad to see my opinion echoed about the Obelisk and the Monolith, I noted that Corey is wrestling with this problem, hopefully we are helping.

The Abattoir: I can give a little on this I guess, it's far from being the largest of issues, the movement just seems a little quick, but since it can't march I guess it's alright...still think 15cm and Infiltrate is a better speed for an assaulting Ziggarat complex.

Critical Effects: Yes I do think that a series of critical effects that are most useful to clearing out troops with little or no effect to the bearer of the critical is more than wrong...especially when the units like the Pylon excel in FF to encourage CC only to go critical and potentially take out anyone in range.

The C'Tan are the same only worse in that they Teleport into assault range and if the go critical they can automatically wipe out a huge swath of troops. Keep in mind that not killing them is not an option due to their awesome stats, the end result being that the Necron Player half hopes that the C'Tan does go down in one round just to maximize the potential for a Critical. Every Critical in this list is a radius effect with profound negative effects on the opponent and very minor effects on the Necron unit itself. That is arguably very wrong in context with the rest of the game...not entertaining at all.

Thanks for the comments, hopefully this thread will garner more interest as the topic is explored!

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Moscovian

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:07 am

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
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Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Well, well. It seems ePilgrim had a few more issues with the army than I perceived the other night. Being that I was there I will give you my take on the ePilgrim proposals.

+1 Marshall. It really didn't come into effect in our game. I marshalled two formations and those actions had no effect on the game. Does the list NEED it? Probably not and I'd recommend getting rid of it being that it effectively makes them AUTOMATICALLY marshall and I don't like too many automatic things.

+2. Critical hits. I love them. In this particular instance ePilgrim was on the receiving end of a very bad hit, but this could have easily gone the other way. I had teleported in and lost the strategy roll. Had I won the strategy roll or had he been targeted after my troops were on the ground, it would have wiped out GUARANTEED two entire Phalanx which would have changed the game completely. As it was the Monoliths and Obelisks made every save which added insult to injury. Being that there is no way to predict the position of enemy or friendly troops when a critical occurs I would say they are more than fair.

Abbatoir: ePilgrim should have ZERO complaints about this machine. It spent two entire turns broken and doing nothing. The mere fact that my dice were 'magical' on Friday I think frustrated my opponent. I found it pricey.

Phase Out: Once again, this didn't even come up in the game. We played two turns and he resigned. The success (sadly) of the game was solely due to dice. ePilgrim rolled as bad on this as he did good on the Tyranid game we played. The previous time I played against the Necrons the Phase Out didn't have a chance to come into play there either. In a scenario I see this as quite powerful, but being that most contact in a game occurs in turn two and the game is done often in turn three, the phase out is just as much a detriment as it is a benefit. Troops off the board count as destroyed for victory conditions. They can't rally and ruin the 'hold the line' objective. And -as pointed out- they can't regenerate.

Plus the Necrons ability to move by teleport is its primary mobility. There aren't too many armies out there where the mere act of moving places BMs.

Obelisks - they are gross. While I like the stats, I think they need to be more expensive. They are tough and I see them as tough. I see and agree with the fearless (it's a ROCK, folks!) and the scout too. But bump the price on these to 350 for the formation of 6 and up the add-ons for Monolith formations to 75 per Obelisk. This will certainly eat up the points. Changing the stats would mean leaving the point cost where it is and I think that is a mistake. Their ability to supplement the Monoliths cheaply is in need of repair.

Monoliths - I am not convinced anything needs done with them IF the Obelisk points are changed. As a stand alone unit, they break with one BM and really have their function in supporting, not attacking.

All told, this past game (the BATREP will be done this weekend) was not a good example of the Necrons. I didn't fail a single armor roll on my vehicles and ePilgrim's only positive for the night was that his Space Marines were painted bright colors and easy to spot on the battlefield. :laugh:

But it was fun to see a 5000 point game again after so many 3000 pointers.

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corey3750

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:22 am

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Just going to share some of my thoughts on these issues.

On the obelisk, I just wanted to point out, that They were ALWAYS supposed to have had a 4+ armor save....

That's how I always played them. It wasn't till recently I noticed that it wasn't actually in there that way.. my bad.

I don't have a problem with turning them into a 5+ armor, but you have to understand a sense of perspective on this one.

For the Necron, the Obelisk is a "recon" unit. IN fact it's function is that of a Main battle tank. That's why it was supposed to have the 4+ save.

The big problem on it was the combination of Range and movement.

Obelisks guarding a Monolith are pinned to the Monolith, so can't make full use of their abilites. Unfettered it could move fast enough to make effective use of it's weapons, with a Monolith it couldn't...

ah well.

And actually, you have hit on the crux of the problem with dealing with the Necron. The core of the army is it's Monoliths. If you kill them all, you shut the army down.

However, if you just ignore them, and move away... well you've just wrecked the Necron's ability to manuver. :cool:

(that's why they are forbidden to march)

The first is hard to do, and frankly people are tempted to do it. The second is easier to do, but harder to bring yourself to do.

My biggest problem with the Monolith is what to do with it. Having more than one if a formation is a nightmare. Having them alone makes them dog meat. I could do that, but I'd have to remove all limits on deployment... which isn't a bad idea until you consider what would happen if you had a half dozen teleport into fire support range of an assault.

I've been trying SOOOO hard to balance them out, while keeping them true to what they are supposed to be, but it's not easy at all.

And if you up the cost to 100 points... try building an effective army that way.

Spyders: Spyders are expensive for several reasons. 1.) They are a beast in an assault.
2.) They are the only ranged fire in most formations.
3.) They are tough
4.) They are mobile cover
5.) The Fearless means they are likely to survive even a failed assault.
6.) The big reason: Take 3 Spyders in a formation. Lose most of the Necron in that formation. Marshall that formation... Spyders essentially garuntee you've just returned it to full combat capability.

The Bonus to Marshall actions is a bit of Character for the army... but it's also a choice.

Do I use a marshall action to guaruntee I can remove blast markers/Restore guys (thus making me effectively useless), or do I fight as normal?

Hmmm.

The choice is tougher for a formation that got the crap kicked out of it and broke. Now they are off the board. Do they marshall to be able to come onto the board and restore units, or do they stay weak and worthless to attempt some other action.

Yes.. the Abattoir is fast. But it's also fairly fragile. I've had 2 kinds of games. 1.) The enemy makes it a point to kill the Abattoir. When they do this, they usually succeed. or 2.) They ignore the Abattoir. This is usualy an extremely bad idea, cause once you get it into close combat it will eat entire formations or Titans.

This isn't an easy army to work out. I REALLY appreciate everyone's imput and testing.

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Moscovian

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:33 am

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Corey, the list is fine. It needs some tweaking, but there aren't too many lists out there that DON'T need tweaking (Orcs and IG, that's it).

After playing with the Necrons and against the Necrons I only see two real changes that should take place.

1. Up the price on Obelisks as I suggested above. Their price point should be higher for Monolith support than for the formation IMO.

2. Take out the +1 to Marshall.

Everything else is looking good, dude. Hope you liked the pics too!

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epilgrim

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:23 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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Hi Corey, good to hear from you,

As always I appreciate your insight into the choices for the list. In response I hope to clarify or focus on my concerns:

Implacable Advance
IMO It boils down to an issue of game mechanics, by Necrons ignoring the effect of blast markers when marshalling the can always move or shoot and then regroup. No other army gets an automatic action once the enemy has reached out and placed a BM. As you pointed out Marshalling is always a tactical choice, just as it is for other armies, but is a small element of risk ruining the character of an army that already has tons of character (Living Metal, Gods, Teleport and Portals and more fearless units than any other army)?

This is only my opinion, but I think it has a basis in the core mechanics.

Phase Out
Teleport, Portal and Phase Out are the hallmarks of this list and do represent a tactical challenge to each player. My comments in the end are really about the Monolith (cost) and the Obelisk (cost and Fearless - Scout combo). As rules go the core of the Necron list is not broken or unfair in the least, so perhaps mixing these rules with the two units in question is misleading on my part.

Tomb Spyder - I see no reason not to leave this as is based on your response, so I'll drop my line of commentary.

The Abattoir ? as I noted above while I personally find it to be a tad quick I have reserved any further comments with the exception of the commonality of the Critical Hit effects in the list.

Critical Effects ? I maintain that automatic kills on enemy units and the reliance on radial effects with only minor chances of effects on the war engine itself is incorrect. Any catastrophic effects should have equal or worse effects on the subject of the critical.

The Monolith- While I understand your cost justification for this unit, Teleport, Portal, Fearless, Living Metal and Thick Rear Armour are not represented properly given the capabilities and availability of Obelisks to guard this unit. If this stays at 75 then...the Obelisk needs a real hard re-thinking.

The Obelisk? The combination of Fearless and Scout is very problematic given the strategy behind a Monolith - Teleport / Portal / Assault / Phase Out. Add to that the current cost of this unit and you have the single worst part of the list. I don't think this unit can realistically be worth less than 100 points as profiled. I provided suggestions above, but they all mess with your design.

The Necron Army List
I understand the thoughts behind the cost of the Tomb Spyder and if you want to keep the cost up don't let me stop you ? :;):

I still think the cost distribution on the other units should reflect their capabilities, but as you may have noted the point variances are relatively minor, and far from being the most important portion of this discussion.

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Hojyn

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:49 am

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(corey3750 @ Sep. 29 2006,00:22)

QUOTE

Obelisks guarding a Monolith are pinned to the Monolith, so can't make full use of their abilites. ?Unfettered it could move fast enough to make effective use of it's weapons, with a Monolith it couldn't...

So perhaps they should stay at 50 points each WITH a Monolith and go to 75 points each when on their own.

This would put the 6 Obelisks formation at 450 points, which may sound like a lot but is actually OK for 6 Teleporting, Scout, Fearless, 4+RA tanks. On top of that, I would still make them 5+RA, or 5+ Living Metal. After all, all other Necron vehicles (Spyder excepted) are Living Metal, why not the Obelisk?

My biggest problem with the Monolith is what to do with it. [...] I've been trying SOOOO hard to balance them out, while keeping them true to what they are supposed to be, but it's not easy at all. And if you up the cost to 100 points... try building an effective army that way.

It's probably true that if we keep upping the costs, the Necron army will become unplayable.

How about limiting the number of Monoliths to 1 per Phalanx? This would solve the potential problem of the "all-Monolith" army and justify the relatively low cost of the Monolith and its Obelisk escorts.

It would also make the Abattoir more attractive by giving the Necron player that extra portal for extra mobility.

Spyders: Spyders are expensive for several reasons. 1.) They are a beast in an assault.
2.) They are the only ranged fire in most formations.
3.) They are tough
4.) They are mobile cover
5.) The Fearless means they are likely to survive even a failed assault.
6.) The big reason: Take 3 Spyders in a formation. Lose most of the Necron in that formation. Marshall that formation... Spyders essentially garuntee you've just returned it to full combat capability.

My biggest gripe with Spyders is that they are the only AV in an otherwise all-infantry formation. As such, they are very easy to target and to destroy, making the Phalanx more vulnerable overall. They are paying for an ability (Leader) that they won't be able to use if the opponent destroys them first.

Now, I'll admit that making them Infantry might be over the top (although they would then be worth 75 pts), but perhaps reducing their cost to 50 points might help. Right now, 3 Spyders cost as much as another Phalanx... For me, the choice is easily done.

The Bonus to Marshall actions is a bit of Character for the army... but it's also a choice.
Do I use a marshall action to guaruntee I can remove blast markers/Restore guys (thus making me effectively useless), or do I fight as normal?

There I agree. Orks have a +2 bonus to Assaults, why couldn't Necrons have +1 to Marshall actions. Even if it means they pass them automatically, I really don't see this a game-breaking.

Yes.. the Abattoir is fast. But it's also fairly fragile.

Exactly. The Abattoir is a GREAT concept, but it doesn't live up to its name. It should be tough and it should be a beast in assaults.
Right now, and despite its 4+ Living Metal armour, it is not tough, because it Breaks way too easily, all the more so since it's one of the only units in the army that can't teleport/use a portal and will usually be a big, juicy target for the opponent during the first turn (unless you do a mass teleportation on turn 1 to assault the enemy army, but then you're losing the support of the Abattoir).
Wild ideas to make it better:

- give it 8 DC (er... have I said that before?

) ;
- give it some limited teleportation (example: "may teleport within 60 cm of the Tomb Complex"... hey, just made that up, but I actually like it!

If you do that, you could go back to 15 cm and Infiltrator)
- make it faster (25 cm move and keep Infiltrator)
- make it better in FF (FF3+ or some MW FF extra attacks, thus extending its "threat range" by 15 cm)
- make it immune to the automatic BM for being shot at, or make it immune to the effects of Disrupt weapons.

Please, do something about it, because it's probably one of the best concepts in the Necron army (heck, in the entire game even!), and it's a shame to see it go to waste.

This isn't an easy army to work out. I REALLY appreciate everyone's imput and testing.

And, despite all my criticism, let me tell you that you're doing a great job. The Necron army is characterful, fun to play and (almost) balanced, and that's no small feat!

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fbruntz

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:16 pm

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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:45 am
Posts: 232
Location: Lyon, France

(Hojyn @ Sep. 29 2006,11:49)

QUOTE

How about limiting the number of Monoliths to 1 per Phalanx? This would solve the potential problem of the "all-Monolith" army and justify the relatively low cost of the Monolith and its Obelisk escorts.

I think that is a good idea. Monoliths are powerfull units and should be restricted in number.

My main problem with the army is the war engines. They are strong but they are too expensive. It's not possible, for example, to deploy an Abattoir AND a C'tan in a standard 3000 points army.
In addition, I do not like the idea that in an army that will appear by teleportation it could be some big and huge war engines that must stay around the base. It doesn't seem very logical, does it?
I like the Abattoir (and specialy the one made by Hojyn ?

) but I was thinking that smaller war engines (that could be teleported) should be more fluffy.

That's only my point of view of course. ?

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Ilushia

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:45 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 1189

This one I have to ask about for people who are complaining about the radial effects of crits: Is anyone out there modifying the potential hits on WEs taking crits (the Aeonic Orb especially) as per the barrage rules? The one time I fought Corey when I critted his Aeonic Orb and dropped the blast marker on it I found out (To my personal surprise) that he was expecting it to take 1/2 DC in attacks from said blast marker. So it risked 3 attacks, not 1. Two of which went through, one critted, made it detonate again and killed itself (having taken a few hits from my Reaver before hand). So I'm gonna ask here: Who, if anyone, here is doing this? As it makes a HUGE difference in your rate of damaging them post-crit.

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Moscovian

Post subject: 4.1.1 A Playtester Review

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:09 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

The War Engines are certainly expensive, but given the armies flexibility in other areas I don't mind it.

The Pylons being immobile really force you to be careful with them. In my game with ePilgrim, they spent the entire game broken and unable to function at all, simply because I deployed "poorly". It worked out in the end, but that is another discussion.

Pylon criticals have more potential to hit friendly units than enemies, being their deployment will invariably be far from the front lines.

Abbatoir critical is once again more likely to hit friendlies with a 5cm radius unless there is an assault going on.

Aeonic Orb will most certainly hit friendlies (or just itself) being that nobody in their right mind would bring this thing to the front of a battle.

That means that the C'tan are really the only ones that have an 'unbalanced' nature to them. Being that they are 0-1 on the list, you can't predict their position on the board nor the time of the critical, and they are gods, it seems like they are just fine.

IMO once the Obelisks are fixed, the army will be fine. Upping their cost on both the separate formation and the Monolith upgrades (especially this one) will fix them and the Monolith. I agree with Corey that balancing a list around a 100+ point Monolith would be difficult. I found myself running out of points quickly when constructing my list.

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