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CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84

 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Some shots from our EA Cold Wars playtest last night:


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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Thanks Dave.

As all can now see, the Reds crossed the inter-German border yesterday evening. This was the first clash between the Bundeswehr and GSFG. It was a bloody affair, even without any NBC warfare :P

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:22 pm 
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We tried a random side activation for this. I put a number of black cards equal to the number of my activations into a deck, and Matt did the same with red cards. We shuffled at the start of each turn and drew one at a time. When it was a black card I activated, when red he did. On each new turn we re-built the deck not counting broken formations. If a formation was broken before it could activate we removed the appropriate color from the cards yet to be drawn and shuffled them again.

Beyond that Matt added a LAV type of unit, and a AV weapon firepower to hit it. They're somewhere between LVs and AVs. Also, we tried a save modifier (basically a more granular approach then the all-or-nothing MW). It never came up, but I assume if hits with different save mods had to be applied to a target formation we would take a page out of MW hit allocation rules. Basically, resolved all regular hits, then all -1 save mod hits, then all -2, etc. Applying hits to the closest units for each like MWs.

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Scenario-wise, this was a delaying action. Russians (me) had to get half their army across the mid-line (100cm away) by turn 4. Germans (Matt) had to stop that from happening with a force 50-66% of mine. The Russians managed to get there, with a bunch of doubles. I think another German formation would have evened things up more.

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:10 am 
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Hi!

Cool battle and pictures!

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:00 pm 
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Which ruleset did you use? Modern Spearhead? A fistful of TOWs? Team Yankee? Epic? Using cards even sound a bit like Bolt action (*shudder*)

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:24 pm 
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EA, with the mods above.

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:27 pm 
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Very interesting – could you share the stats for some sample units and how formations organisation was decided?

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:47 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Very interesting – could you share the stats for some sample units and how formations organisation was decided?

Hey Apoc,
I am generally constructing units based on the assumption I'll be using this stuff for large, scenario-based games. So, the stats are more complicated/nuanced and the formations are mostly company sized. For example, the soviet stuff is all 10 tanks/IFVs/APCs. Mechanized infantry would be 10 BMP/BTR + 10 infantry squads (all transports are transport 1 because I have limited models and the BMPs at least are a tight fit). For the scouts, I basically split the scout car company down the middle and made it two activations because they would be flexible like that.

On the NATO side, companies are generally on the 14-17 unit size, and I'm playing around with more flexible "battlegroup" or combat team (think team yankee) builds. The German FMs you see in the pics (e.g. 4 Leo IIs, 8 Marder IFV, 8 inf; 8 jagdpanzer kanon) were thrown together right before the game. I've been using the Fire and Fury OOBs on their website to research formations, but that's a 15mm game so I have to be careful about adhering too closely to the numbers allotted.

As for unit stats, I've added a unit class "Light armored vehicle", which represent vehicles that have lighter armor but shouldn't realistically be killed by AP fire. The Luchs, BMP, Marder, Bradley, and AMX-30 all fall into this class, for example. This means I have added an ALAV firepower value to the weapons where applicable. Also, to represent TOW, HOT, Sagger, Songster, etc. I've added a special rule "ATGW" - vehicles can only use this weapon on a sustain or overwatch.

To account for shaped charge warheads and spaced/composite armor, "H" for HEAT is added to the firepower value and "C" or "S" added to the armor value. If an "H" weapon hits a vehicle with a "C" or "S" armor save, then the armor gains reinforced.

A good unit stat example is the T-64B, which has a lot of my new special rules added:
T-64B AV 25cm Armor 4+(C) cc 6+ ff 4+
125mm/45cm AT4+; 45cm ALAV 3+; 30cm AP 5+
Or
Songster/90cm AT4+ (ATGW)(H)

You'll also notice that the weapons have variable ranges based on the target. In general, NATO tanks will have a longer range for their non-ATGW shots to account for better fire control systems. AP values for tank guns are low because infantry is quite hard to hit at range. Unless secondary weapons are really big, I've rolled them into the ff value.

Another example:
AMX-30B2 LAV 25cm 5+ cc 6+ ff 4+
105mm/45cm AT4+; 45cm ALAV 3+; 30cm AP5+
20mmCoax 30cm ALAV 5+; 15cm AP6+
This accounts for the relatively light armor of the AMX-30 (part of its charm, lol). If I was doing a '70s scenario, the 105 would have (H) next to the firepower because they didn't have a sabot round for it until the early 80s.

LeopardII AV 25cm 4+(c) cc 6+ ff 4+
120mm/60cm AT3+; 60cm ALAV 2+; 30cm AP5+
For guns like the 120, we toyed with making a -1/-2 modifier to the target's armor save, rather than going for MW. It seemed to work well in the play test. Of course there were only 4 Leo IIs in the game...

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:57 pm 
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I've been thinking a little bit more about the new unit type, and giving attacks penetration values to modify saves (like sniper).

Firepower can be an abstraction of a weapon's accuracy (skill of the crew, fire control of the vehicle, ease of use of the weapon, muzzle velocity, etc). Basically, how easy it is to just hit something with the weapon. It would be affected by the speed of vehicle (sustain vs advance vs double), target concealment, the range to the target (if you want to add in range modifiers), and the speed of the target (if you want to add in agility modifers for the target moving).

Penetration can be an abstraction of weapon's ability to damage (kinetic force of the round, shape of the charge, etc.). Or, how effective a hit from the weapon is at knocking out a vehicle. If would affect the save of target, and would stack with the crossfire reduction (which is meant to represent hitting the target in the rear armor).

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I guess what I'm getting at is, instead of adding the LAV type, keep them AVs with lighter armor and give the bigger guns a penetration value to make their armor non-existent.

The Leopard II could look something like this:

Code:
Leopard II  AV  25cm  4+  6+  4+
120cm  60cm  AT3+  Penetration (2)
   or  30cm  AP5+


It would hit a BMP or a T-64 just the same, but the chance of actually knocking the target out would depend on their armor values. The T-64 would save on a 6+, and the BMP a 7+ (not usually possible, all though we could house-rule that too).

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Going one step further, you could then give unit's a "Thick Armor" rule, or something like that. It would reduce the penetration of hits on the unit but wouldn't increase its save. E.g. a unit with a 4+ save and Thick Armor (1) would save like this:

Code:
Hit's Penetration  |  Save of a Unit with Armor 4+ and Thick Armor (1)
          -        |            4+
          1        |            4+
          2        |            5+
          3        |            6+
          4        |            7+
          5        |            8+
          6        |            9+


Then, H hits would just not get their Penetration againt unit's with S or C armor. That way, you don't have to give a special rule (reinforced armor) to a unit that may or may not already have it.

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Dave wrote:
I've been thinking


That's the problem. This isn't rule writing by committee. You'll use the rules I give you :P

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Appreciate the detailed responses chaps, definitely food for thought, cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Fun game!

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:47 pm 
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For the sake of completeness, I post some French reinforcements. I don't think I did the Gazelles justice with their paintjob, but it's close enough for tabletop. Those windows are a pain - numerous and small with very fine outlines - I was just happy to get most of them...

VAB APCs:

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GCT Self-Propelled arty (these things are huge):

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...And the attack helos (the lighting and the black/grey I used makes the cockpit windows hard to see):

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:27 am 
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Hi!

Sweet!

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 Post subject: Re: CaptPiett's Cold War Extravaganza '84
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:57 am 
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Got to love GHQ such wonderful detail on such tiny models, must dig out my GHQ mountain for a dusting off.

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