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Mard's Painting Blog (Now Sister of Battle!)

 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:22 pm 
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First time I've seen the DRM walkers in a force. They look really good.

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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:57 pm 
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Hi!

Somehow I had missed this awesome thread.

Very wonderful choices and paint jobs!

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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:15 pm 
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Dave wrote:
The DRM quad-leg for a Warden looks great, if you're looking for something similar to do others there's also the Battletech Barghest.

You'll have to let me know what you and your opponents think of the list. I just need to write up my last two battle reports before I put it up for approval.



I've been playing them at my local club a bit now while i work out what i want to field and practice for Cancon. This Friday will be my first game with the new larger base size, up until now I've been using old Rogue Trader mini proxies while i built this force.
I think most people like the list, finding them a bit scary on the engage and firefight but some of them are getting wise to their tactics and are working out he weaknesses. I'll be sure to be asking each of my opponents at Cancon for what they thought of the list after each game, may even take some slips of paper and ask each of them to write down something brief about it so i can remember to type it up here.


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:02 pm 
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Jeeez Mard! This army is just great! I can't wait to see it at the tables of CANCON.

With regards to the Knight list I think the limitation on power lances and shock lances only being used in when knights initiate the engage action is unnecessary and completly out of kilter with the rest of the net ea rules. And engagement (regardless of who initiated it) is supposed to represent a free flowing melee. And knights not being able to use one of their core abilities seems out of synch with everyother special rule.

Im happy to conceed that it stays in as long as ypu transfer all of the other bretonnian special rules to them as well...

Also the critical hit effect is pretty brutal. I know there is other war engines that are destroyed on a crit (im looking at your cartwheeling wagons of death orks!) But it would be nice to maybe trial a similar rule as the warhound - in that it stumbles and takes an additional damage if it hits something (assuming im reading the rule right).

Cheers
And look forward to squaring off against your knights soon mard.


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:48 pm 
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The fluff behind the Power/Shock Lances (and how they worked in SM/TL) was that they are powered by the movement of the Knight as they charge the enemy. They don't get to move as far when they, themselves, are charged so the servos don't get a chance to power up and discharge the shock. That's what I tried to replicate with the rules.

On the crit, there's not much that doesn't take a point of damage when it's critted. The only thing I can think of is the Gorgon (and that's whopping let down when you crit those things). The Warhound now takes a point of damage, regardless if it stumbles into something.

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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:30 am 
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Right okay. I can see what you trying were trying to achieve but I dint know if that rule accurately captures the dynamics of the engagement phase. Also getting hit by a 4 storey building is probably worth at least a macro weapon if not the EA and FS. But I can see the logic.

Yeah with Crits most WE suffer pretty heavily it just seems rude for the entire knights army that if you fail an armour save you have a 1 in 6 chance of becoming someones razor blade. Would it be possible to trial a critical damage table for the knights. 1-3 the power shield is kaput and 4-6 the knight eats the dirt?

Sorry for hijacking your thread Mard.

But whats your thoughts mard? I have only ever played against knights not with them


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:53 am 
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Honestly, I'd like to see the Power/shock lance rules being able to be used even if I'm charged. Once your opponent works out this is how they function, It's really hard to get the engage on units instead of being engaged yourself.
From what i understand engagements kind of represent a regular game of 40k, with all the shooting moving around and CC so to me it make sense that they would get to use their lances all the time in those engagements, I'd like to see that transferred here.
Being able to use my lance abilities in engagement, regardless of who initiated i think would make up a bit for the 1 in 6 destruction from Crits which i agree is pretty brutal


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:51 am 
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Giving them that would mean a points increase. I'm on the cusp of bumping them up at the moment, the only reason I haven't is because of the other two playtest groups say they don't need it. The rest of my group is ambivalent.

On the critical damage table, it be one more thing to track (people were against 2DC because they thought it was a pain to track). Changing that would also mean an increase (as above) as well as another round of testing.

At this point, I think both disadvantages help balance the list. There's been around 50 games with it since 2.0 this year in three groups and neither of these things were brought up as an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:12 am 
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Yeah I guess that's the beauty of a diverse and involved community. Different ideas and different takes on the same beautiful system that is epic.

I know you are getting ready for cancon right now mard, but qould the newy guys be able to commit to some playtesting of the knights with different stats?

Maybe just same points and remove the engage restriction and let the crit stand as is. It is pretty consistent with other war engines. Just so super rude when it happens in a game haha.

Would that be okay dave before you go formal?


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:57 am 
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Pretty sure the NEwcastle group would be up for that, we have a lot of players all playing Epic now and i'm sure we could test that


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:40 am 
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Pretty sure we brought this up back in an earlier version of the list. I certainly understand your intent to copy the old SM/TL rule set but the useless flatfooted-ness of the knights on the assault receive seems counter intuitive to the intent of the assault phase. I'd happily pay slightly more for each knight to make them feel like they're assault specialists, rather than circumstantial assault specialists.

In our play testing, high activation armies were disproportionately good against knights as they had a better chance of engaging the knights on favourable terms. What other army (of assault orientated units) suffers so badly on the assault receive?

Any how, Sorry for the thread jack Mard.. Hurry up and post more pictures :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 pm 
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I wouldn't call them useless for missing out on a FF5+ FS attack. Win/loss/points-wise they're 8:4:7 (with the points W/L being 4:3) in the last iteration of battle reports, if anything they're pretty good overall at their current cost and stats. Dealing with the higher activation armies came down to keeping the army tight and dancing around their engagement bubble in our group. With 5-15cm of speed on most infantry, and long range shooting that's usually doable.

All that's not to say that things can't change, the Knight Crusade list is up next and 2015 Knight World playtest changes can be put together. I have to follow what the reports and those that are playing them are telling me though, which is "pretty good overall" at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:37 am 
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This army is awesome Mard, really liking how the Knights are coming together. Great idea for conversions, they look great. I'm kinda curious to see the size comparison next to the GW Knight and maybe even a FW/ts Warhound.


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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:26 am 
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nlmyns wrote:
This army is awesome Mard, really liking how the Knights are coming together. Great idea for conversions, they look great. I'm kinda curious to see the size comparison next to the GW Knight and maybe even a FW/ts Warhound.



I don't have any of the old GW Knights on hand, but can show you a Knight next to my work in progress warhound and one of my RT Space marines, which are pretty much the size of the old Knights anyway

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 Post subject: Re: Mard's road to Cancon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:31 pm 
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So i moved house of Saturday, so not much happened this weekend, though i did manage to pump out one unit of Rough Riders

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Also on Friday i managed to get in two games in with my list as practice for Cancon against two very experienced players. I got rolled hard both games, significantly. They are not a fan of the Knight List, seeing it underpowered in a few key places.
With the calibur of players I'll be facing at Cancon, I plan to get all of my opponents to write something brief for me after each game of what they thought of the Knight world list and plan to feed this back through to Dave after the tourney. I know this list ha been played a bit already in three different groups, but the Australian East coast clubs (which are expanding rapidly) have a different meta than say America and the UK

Some of the questions raised I distinctly remembered were: Why no Fearless (That hurts a hell of a lot), Why don't Seneschals have Inspiring? the only character that does is for infantry? And the Lances only being able to be used on the engage being really shit.


Last edited by Mard on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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