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What makes a game system great?
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Author:  netepic [ Fri May 20, 2005 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Hello, I was just wondering as we have such a diverse group here, what in your opinion makes a game system great?

This is not intended as a flame war of NetEPIC vs Epic40k, or Warmaster vs DBM, but rather a question of what games systems have caught your attention and why.

For example:

Myself - I loved SM2, it was the second gaming system I played (My dad bought me Warhammer 4th Ed but it soon got shelved in favour of SM2). Don't get me wrong Warhammer was great, and later on Advanced Heroquest was also fun. But it was the EPIC scale that grabbed me, it warmed the cockles of my inner megalomanics heart. The background was suitably dark and moody, which I think appeals to almost every teenager out there, and when I went into the store I was surrounded by people my own age, who would play it to the sound of heavy metal music :).

Later on I got Mighty Empires - again the scale of this wowed me, whilst we didn't have enough Warhammer models to play it as a Warhammer campaign, we played it as a gaming system in it's own right and it was amazing, we used to play the same campaign for weekends at a time until one player was in a position where he couldn't be defeated.

Later on I got Warmaster, which again suits me to a tee. War on a grand scale, nice miniatures, good background. Unfortunately - a lack of players :'(.

Epic: Armageddon is my current gaming system of choice along with NetEPIC, a really good ruleset, the background that I love. Smaller armies - but I can deal with that, it is a compromise, big games NetEPIC is better for, smaller games Epic:A is better for (talking about the number of models, rather than points).

Other games that I have enjoyed have been Man'o'War (long time ago) and Mordheim (great game btw, it is the experience and wounds system that makes it. You really get attached to your characters.)
Author:  the_fifth_horseman [ Fri May 20, 2005 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
The setting surely plays a great role, but if it's the rules we are speaking, then it would be their effectiveness. Look at 40k, with about 7 or 8 stats, so many rules and things that are easy to confuse or abuse. Then look at E:A, which is far more refined in general terms. The rules are simple, stats few and straightforward etc.
Author:  primarch [ Fri May 20, 2005 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Hi!

For me is all a matter of scope. I love massed combat. Great battles, feeling like a general. Few games do that for me. Although skirmish games are more popular they just dont capture my attention. I dont care much about the fate of one solder (model), but of platoons, companies and battalions. I like seeing multitudes of vehicles and large land machines stalking the battlefield. Only epic does it for me. As for rules versions? Netepic mainly becuase it has individual rules for all models past and present and it captures the "zanyness" of the 40k universe. If I want a more realitic approach I use Heresy.

Primarch
Author:  Justiniel [ Fri May 20, 2005 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
For me it's mostly the background, I started with WW2 models using Command Decision and also with MERP, a RPG based in Middle Earth because I'm a hugh fan of all things Tolkien, the rules were secondary to the backgound, I enjoy GW LOTR for much the same reason.
Space Marine also caught my attention, partly the scope and size as Primarch says but also the background and feel really appeals to me, and is customisable to a great degree (the universe being such a large place) :laugh:
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Fri May 20, 2005 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Like others have said I think background plays a vital part. Rules can be ever so good but isn't what makes people stick to a game in thhe long run.
Technically Epic 40k was a pretty good game -The rules were similar to those of BFG which was a big success and the models were awsome. However there wasn't much in the rule books to capture the imagination of the reader and that made the models seem like little more than a number of dice rolls and mathematical formulas.

I guess ultimately it is a matter of achieving balance between good gameplay, good models and good background.

For me personally I think the most important thing is the models. You are going to spend time and money on the little buggers so they better be good quality and interesting to look at. The exact rules for the models is secondary as long as it captures the grand sweeping feel which a wargame should have IMO (as opposed to RPG where detail, storyline and deeper psychological detail are important for an interestig game )
For the same reason I dislike 40k and WHFB. The armies are too small to be called, well, armies and at the same time they are too big and the game too short to offer any interestingdeeper background. (Rogue trader is a possible exception: I've read the rules but never actually tried a game but it looks promising: the idea that you can have an evolving storyline and let your troops evolve is interesting...Yeah I know I should try Necromunda :D )

Cheers! :)
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri May 20, 2005 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Off the top of my head, activation (of course !), a good balance of realism (in this case, - and Sci-Fi !) and playability.  Prefer Reinforced Co. and Bn level Ops (I'm a tactian not a strategist !).  E:A came  pretty close ... but still like the SM1/AT1 Scenarios, Off and On Board Call for fire/FA, Templates/TO&Es, etc. ! :D
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri May 20, 2005 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 20 2005 May,15:53)
the idea that you can have an evolving storyline and let your troops evolve is interesting...Yeah I know I should try Necromunda

I will let you know when I have updated the Epic Crucible of Champions, I think that you may like it.
:D
Author:  netepic [ Fri May 20, 2005 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
So Titans are secondary - it is mainly the scale that grabbed you guys?
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Fri May 20, 2005 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Quote (netepic @ 20 2005 May,16:53)
So Titans are secondary - it is mainly the scale that grabbed you guys?

Not personally. I have always loved seeing Mechs/Titans on the gaming table.

Cheers

James
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Fri May 20, 2005 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Oh sure. If we're talking what got us interested in the game in the first place then titans it is! :D  ...And seeing miniature versions of my Space Crusade Chaos Androids :D

Cheers!
Author:  PitFiend [ Fri May 20, 2005 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Quote (netepic @ 20 2005 May,11:01)
when I went into the store I was surrounded by people my own age, who would play it to the sound of heavy metal music :).

When i moved to Notts 3 years ago, first thing i went looking for was wargamers, figuring "there's a nice correllation of metals and gamers". My main regular opponent at the mo is a GW Troll, the local air-guitar champion and a huge Manowar fan...

I think i drifted into wargaming via Fighting Fantasy and D&D, but it was Chaos and the earliest Skaven that got my attention.  First it was all the horrifying, twisting power of Chaos as a whole, then the lure of Slaanesh that got me. I'm a bit of hedonist at heart, so i've been sold on Slaanesh ever since.

It may just be that i've got tentacles on the brain.

I went through a phase of being a big CCG player. The two main games i fell in love with, after the initial inevitable Magic phase, were Mythos and Netrunner. Call of Cthulhu goes multiplayer card game and Cyberpunk goes one-on-one poker game. Both very different to play (though both generally very well regarded), but both very very cool to me because of their settings.

A really good game system has to be able to evoke a feel for the mythos it's meant to be about (gritty war, high fantasy, cyberpunk, whatever), allow for creativity in the models/characters or have good looking models available, go into enough detail to add to the feel without getting so detailed that it brings the game grinding to a halt, and be a tight enough system that the tactics and strategy will result in the winner, not just be down to who wins the roll to go first or the rock-paper-sword of the army choice.

I really should look at DBA a bit more, but i prefer the fantastic armies of HOTT, even though i'm not a massive fan of the stopping power of dragons and gods...
Author:  primarch [ Sat May 21, 2005 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Hi!

The titans were an initial "quirk" that got one interested, however the addition of troops, vehicles and artillery make the experience "complete".

Primarch
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat May 21, 2005 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
The scale and detailed models got me. 6mm is a good wargame scale. I bought SM1 before AT1. ?I still think Titans are a "goofy" concept. ?We still use the SM1 standard of only 25% of your BFL may be used on Titan. ?Don't get me wrong; I have them and we used them on occasion. ?But they are still just big targets, to me ! :laugh:
Author:  iblisdrax [ Sat May 21, 2005 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
Yeah, but that can be usefull too!  Every time the Ork player brings out his Mega Gargant, I feel compelled to pour massive amounts of firepower at it, even though it is only moderately dangerous untill it gets into medium/short range. I have lost games because of ignoring the rest of what his army was doing!  :p

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat May 21, 2005 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  What makes a game system great?
My tactic is always smash his Titan/Gargant first ...  by turn 3 it's a smoking hulk ...   Mine is probably a wreck too ... but it did it's job ... :D
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