Tactical Command
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Mucking about with Sketchup
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20624		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ceimeifukan [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Mucking about with Sketchup
Hi All,

The work of many members of this forum in 3D designing software is amazing and really inspirational. I was so impressed that I donwload google sketchup just to see if I could get a flavour for what these guys do.

Now from what I can gather sketchup is the simplest and most readily available package out there but it seems to lack a few key features for CAD, some of which can be gotten around such as exporting to STL and others which have proved to be a stumbling block such as boring holes in curved surfaces.

Might it be an idea for those grizzled veterans of the CAD scene to put together a sticky post reviewing the various packages they use, what they're good at, where they struggle, cost etc...?

Anyway, the purpose of this post was to say that if you're in the same position as me, which is deeply envious of the skills of these CAD gurus but with no prior experience of 3D design and quite daunted by the complexity involved then simpler packages like sketchup are a great taster and in my (not very well informed) opinion make the fuller and more complex packages out there seem far less intimidating. I put together the tank below as an excersise in getting familiar with the software in about 8 hrs I guess, which includes watching some of the training videos.

I think the real skill lies in two parts

A). taking the simple blocky shapes my tank is made out of and transforming it into something far less ugly
B). Measuring from real life - I had a quick go at this and working out the angle and length of some 40k scale pieces and trying to replicate on the computer is incredibly difficult (something which I totally hadn't considered).

Anyway this is my effort, It probably wont go any further than this but it was fun to play around with.

Image

Image

Image
Author:  Otterman [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
I had a similar experience with CADDing - started with the free Sketchup fun, then tried the MoI demo, then went full MoI. It's a lot cheaper, and forgiving, than the high dollar programs like Rhino, 3DS, etc.
Author:  epic [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
I think your tank design look F...n brilliant for a first attempt, I to have tried the CAD stuff, and built some designs but i really wanted to be able to do minatures i.e faces etc, Its all down to skill and time, I sadly lack both. I have a very artistic nature and could design some fantastic sculpts but im a bit like vincent van gogh with his arms cut off when it comes to CAD.


I totally agree that it would be fantastic for the CAD boys to put a list together but on the other hand it would not help you learn CAD, Its takes time and patients another thing i lack, i like to run before i can walk. Maybe oneday..... must be very cool though to get a package of blues arrive on your doorstep though of something you have designed ;D

I would prefer myself to see some of the CAD designers take on commision work. That way the artist makes some money for the design and sends you the file, then hopefully points you in the right direction of how to go about getting one made ;D

Or have a part of the forum that hosts various designs at whatever stage of build and the forum members vote on what to be built, that way you get an idea on how many little chaps would have homes to go to!

On that note i just have one thing to say " beakys " enough said! ;D

Just my two pence and sorry for going slighty off topic, regards epic
Author:  fattdex [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
Assuming modeling from a ready made source
Take lots of photos! if possible model in parts, take reference photos of sides, top botom back front as appropriate.
Take photos against 1cm grid paper (as accurately as you can) from a bit of a distance, zooming in to make sure you don't have too much distorted perspective.
Crop the photos to a square size in photoshop (20x20cm by the grid paper for example), fix any distorted perspective.
make sure the pics are all reasonably sized so you can zoom for details.
You should be able to load these into your viewports in your chosen cad package, loading them in as 20x20cm (or your chosen grid size).
model at 1:1, divide the final by 5, hey presto
Author:  epic [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
fattdex wrote:
Assuming modeling from a ready made source
Take lots of photos! if possible model in parts, take reference photos of sides, top botom back front as appropriate.
Take photos against 1cm grid paper (as accurately as you can) from a bit of a distance, zooming in to make sure you don't have too much distorted perspective.
Crop the photos to a square size in photoshop (20x20cm by the grid paper for example), fix any distorted perspective.
make sure the pics are all reasonably sized so you can zoom for details.
You should be able to load these into your viewports in your chosen cad package, loading them in as 20x20cm (or your chosen grid size).
model at 1:1, divide the final by 5, hey presto
::) This lot does not compute with my brain, do you mean take pictures and scan so the computer inputs the picture or are you on about how to scale models! Do you by any chance write the instruction manuals for flat packaged furniture as they spent years inventing words and sentences to fry people brains, Insert A to Hole B, rote A ensuring C and D have been done already as mentioned in paragraph 2.4 also ensuring you have located part e and A already ;D

This is the kind of thing that makes it seem dawnting and unacheavable, Laymens terms is what is required ;)

By the way no disrespect or anything meant by my observations buddy, regards epic
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
ceimeifukan wrote:
a stumbling block such as boring holes in curved surfaces.


move to a clean bit of workspace

create a circle the size of hole, and 'pushpull' it until it is a cylinder longer then the area you want to bore.

either select the entire cylinder or better still, make it a component and select that.

drag into place, with the cylinder pushing through the model.

select the model (or everything), right click and select 'intersect with model' (or something similar, there are three options IIRC)

Sketchup adds new lines where planes pass through each other. You can now delete your cylinder to find a perfect hole left behind.
Author:  fattdex [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
You got top front and side viewports when you are modeling, yeah?
If youre building a t34 tank, buy a t34 tank model.
Assemble the hull, take top side front photos of em
Stick em in your viewports in your cad program, model it.
Repeat for turret.
Make sure that you establish that all photos are to the same scale, and you can line them up.

So.. take and use accurate reference photos (or draft them before modeping if you are creating from scratch). Dont juet freestyle it
Author:  ceimeifukan [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
Thanks madd0ct0r, I had a feeling there'd be a way around it Would never have thought of that though!

fattdex - again a really useful nugget of know how there! Some time on wikipedia leads me to beleive a viewport is simply a viewing window. If that's correct then I think sketchup can only have one whilst you were suggesting almost tracing from one containng the photo and building the elements together in a second, correct? Will definitely be something worth looking into anyway, perhapps achievable across several sessions.

Edit.....

So If I took something like a Jpeg of a battlefoam tray I was thinking about ordering

Image

Imported it into a CAD program, traced the shapes I wanted and extruded by the appropriate amounts I'd end up with this which is a perfectly scaled replica.

Image


Clever stuff.
Author:  fattdex [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
Pretty much what i was saying yeah, here's a screenshot of modeling a dreadknight leg

Image
Author:  ceimeifukan [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
Right it's been a while since I last played about with this. And I found mysef in the odd situation of having to wait up an entire night so to pass the time I started messing around with how I'd construct a floating funeral barge. I've not finished with it yet but would be interested in any comments anybody has. I did also put this together with half an eye to printing but I know very little about the process and the only limitations I set myself were the minimum levels of detail given on shapeways for frosted ultra detail (0.1mm details, 0.3mm walls) so it would probably save me a packet in the long run if somebody could point out all the bits which wont work in reality.

As regards the design, I was attempting to use egyptian barques as some sort of inspiration and a common theme is high curved prow and sterns, hence the odd snorkel thing on the front (which I'm really not too sure about tbh). I also sunk a 5mm * 1.5mm hole into the top which should be the base size of an exodus wars eddenite assault sergeant.

Additionaly for scale purposes the figure (Susan) is 6.6mm tall, the entire thing is 60mm long and roughly 30mm wide

Image

Image

Image

Chers for any comments
Author:  fattdex [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
I love the design! perhaps it would look good to have the 'exhust ports' on the side angled downward at 45 degrees. Just add some monolith-like panel lines to the flat bits and jobs a good one
Author:  ceimeifukan [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
cheers for the comments, the exhaust ports are already angled at 26 degress and the internal pipe is at the same angle, did you mean something like this?

Image

I've started work on the panels and I'm sick of them already! Does anybody have any comments on the gins or snorkel. The war barque should have a whole array of weapons but I'm not sure whether everything needs to be shown on the model, any thoughts?
Author:  fattdex [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
Yeah mate that's what i meant- i just think it adds a logical stability to it if one imagines that they might be jet or gravity doodad ports.

Panels looking sweet!!
Have you thought about having the middle hollowed out to save on printing and casting? as one would not see the underside it might be left off maybe
Author:  Otterman [ Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
Hollowing things out doesn't tend to save much on printing, but it will on casting.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mucking about with Sketchup
if you've done the panels as a componenent you only have to draw one. any changes you make are automatically done to all.

Add in symmetery, and you only have to draw a small part of the model.
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