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Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15282		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Hello again,

Well Ive been using more metallic paints recently than I normally do for some reason and it got me thinking. I try always to use one brush (or set of brushes) for metallics and another for metallics. After a short time of use the brush I was using for metallics had lost so many of its hairs that it was of no use. So I had to take a almost brand new brush for that purpose.

That brush in turn seems now, after only a few days of painting, to have lost a lot of hairs. Am I imagining things or are metallics more destructive than other paints? Could it have to do with the fact that some of my paints are also rather old? What can one do to prevent this destructive process?

Grateful for all your help as usual!
Author:  Mark_Logue [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
What type of brush are you using?

I use GW metalics all the time.  My current set of AU$5 Francheville Red sable brushes have lasted me over 3 years and been used to paint dozens of armies.

I used to use synthetic brushes and they would be useless after a couple of weeks.

Getting paint up on the metal bit of the brush can wreck them faster but I am not particularly clean with mine and scratch it out occassionally and still don't have problems.
Author:  Major_Gilbear [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Yes, metallic paints are *much* harder on good brushes than normal paints. It has do to with the metal flakes in the paint that make it 'metallic'.
Author:  Malakai [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Quote: (Major_Gilbear @ 29 Mar. 2009, 09:00 )

Yes, metallic paints are *much* harder on good brushes than normal paints. It has do to with the metal flakes in the paint that make it 'metallic'.

Yup. Also it's good that you use separate brushes for your metallics. I myself use my older standard paint brushes for metallics.
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
I guess I have to order some momte brushes then. Any particular brand that might be tougher than most?
Author:  Major_Gilbear [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
You can read a pretty good writeup on metallic paints here; it explains how they are different to normal paints and even why there are different metallic paints. A good read I thought.

///Edit for BCP's ninja post!///

For metals, Vallejo Kolinsky Sables are still good, but cheap enough to change a lot more frequently than your 'good' brushes (I use W&N Series 7s as my 'good brushes').

I think Vallejo also do a non-Kolinsky sable that is cheaper and even synthetic brushes too. Some good painters swear by synthetic brushes for metals, but I never got on with them myself. YMMV though.
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Those are some good tips, thanks :agree:
Author:  Vermis [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Yes, metallic paints are *much* harder on good brushes than normal paints. It has do to with the metal flakes in the paint that make it 'metallic'.

! :rock:

You can read a pretty good writeup on metallic paints here; it explains how they are different to normal paints and even why there are different metallic paints.

But... not why they're 'much harder' on brushes?
Author:  Major_Gilbear [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
@Vermis:
Er, I didn't say that the article explained why it was harder on brushes? All I said was that it explained why metallic paint is different to normal paint and that it was interesting.

Since you seem to want a more specific explanation, try this:

The hair in natural bristle brushes has this structure:


Normally, water-based model paint consists of finely ground pigment suspended in an acrylic medium. Some paints (like P3) have a liquid pigment in an acrylic medium.

Now, during normal use, some of the pigment gets trapped under the cuticle scales of the brush; if the brush is not regularly rinsed, the buildup is forced under the cuticle scales which makes it harder to remove than by rinsing alone. A special brush soap or a brush restorer can help to work the pigment from the brush in these cases.

If the paint buildup starts to dry in the brush, then the damage to the hair is greater as the removal is harsher.

When a brush gets old, the hairs may break or go 'limp' because they have been damaged partway down their length. The hairs also are no longer smooth as the lifted scales roughen the surface. This can cause the brush to lose its point as the hairs will no longer lie together properly.

Also, the bristles in brushes are tightly gripped and glued to the brush. When paint buildup gets into cuticle scale near this anchor point (protected by the ferrule), it becomes almost impossible to properly remove and causes permanent damage to the brush as the buildup worsens through repetition. This also causes fishtailing or splaying, and can damage the hairs near their base, causing them to break (i.e., your brush will lose hairs). This is partly why it is recommended not to dip the brush in paint up to or past the ferrule.

Because metallic paints contain mica fragments (mica platelets), and these platelets have 'sharp' edges, their buildup under the cuticle scales of the brush hairs can be much more damaging than normal.

Furthermore, some metallic paints contain other additives (like Isopropyl Alcohol) to thin them and improve their application. These additives can dry out the oils found naturally in hair much faster than regular rinsing.

To help keep brushes in good condition and restore these oils to the hair, many folks recommend a good leave-in hair conditioner is applied to the brush when you have finished your painting session; a good rinse of the brush in clean water before you start again is all that's needed afterwards.

Hopefully that explains it a bit!
Author:  Brother-Captain Parzval [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Excellent breakdown! That explains both whats been happening and why. In fact this might even be worthy of being stickyed. Big thanks  :agree:
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Quote: (Major_Gilbear @ 29 Mar. 2009, 22:34 )

To help keep brushes in good condition and restore these oils to the hair, many folks recommend a good leave-in hair conditioner is applied to the brush when you have finished your painting session; a good rinse of the brush in clean water before you start again is all that's needed afterwards.

Did not know this!  Very cool!

Now, I just have to ask the wife if I can borrow her conditioner...  :laugh:
Author:  Vermis [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
I'm properly berated.
Author:  alansa [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
While we're on the subject of brushes:

Could you summarise the main differences between natural and synthetic brushes (including Citadel Brushes)?
Author:  Malakai [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Quote: (alansa @ 30 Mar. 2009, 06:11 )

While we're on the subject of brushes:

Could you summarise the main differences between natural and synthetic brushes (including Citadel Brushes)?

In layman's terms (I have no charts or graphs and do not possess an encyclopedic knowledge of all things brush related) synthetic brushes are stiff and easily loose their tip. Natural brushes hold onto the paint much better and provide nice even, consistent coverage.

I once thought all synthetics were the devil and just there to mix my paints, but a tip from Vaaish showed me that they are very good at fine detailing at Epic scale (like Marine shoulder pads) because they are so stiff and ridged. Probably the best tip I've picked up on this forum to date.
Author:  alansa [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Do metallic paints destroy brushes?
Yeah, I don't think I've ever used anything other than citadel brushes. Can't say I've had that much of a problem with them, but then I wouldn't see how much better things could be with natural ones.

Coverage:
My first forays into coverage where a complete disaster. Lumpy and horrid. I imagine this is quite common! After this, I practices with making the paint as smooth as possible. Thin coats with *just* the right amount of water etc. I hated to see any evidence of brush stroke or lack of smoothness. These days I have it down pretty much pat, but natural brushes would make this easier?

Detail:
All of my epic marines have appropriate tactical and chapter symbols on their shoulder pads and I've been able to apply some pretty fine detail on flags and banners (tiny thin strips of checks at the top and bottom for example)
You're suggesting that natural brushes wouldn't help much here?
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