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The Raubtier

 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:35 pm 
Would you guys help me with determining how to 'package' the Raubtier, with regards to the turrets and sponsons?

Pretend that you want a dozen Raubtier of the freemer variety. Would a mixture of Otter and Monkey style turrets be acceptable, or would you want a specific style?

This will help me determine if I should make more production molds (more expensive, but better flexibility in production) or just use a single production mold (cheaper, may lead to excessive stock of one type of turret).

Also, what type of turret will be more popular? The freemer or the cannon version? It seems like the anti-armor abilities of the freemer would make it preferable.


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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:56 pm 
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I believe that the non-ordered varient in the BL list is Freemer turret, riveter sponsons, with no option for the Cannon.. so my guess is that would be more popular. However I would probably mix and match if I was to make up a formation and then just play them all with the Freemer rules.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Personally, I would have no problems mixing and matching the freem and cannon turret styles within a unit. I would, however, prefer to keep the Otter and Monkey turret types segregated.
That being said, I am interested in both variations, so either way you want to do it would probably suit me. What kind of cost difference would you be looking at for the two options you put forth?

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:31 pm 
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In this pretend world 16 hulls, 16 Otter Freem turrets and 16 pairs of Otter riveter sponsons would make me very happy.

I could also see myself using 4 of each of the 4 turrets, 4 of each of the 4 sponson pairs, and 4 hulls for various conversions.

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Last edited by Dave on Thu May 20, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:54 pm 
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I guess i would mix the weapons. Not sure if i like the monkey turrets.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:59 pm 
I'll give you some more background on my experiences with the metal caster.

Production molds that have all combinations inevitably cast disproportionately. For example, let's say that you have a war machine that requires 1 piece A, 1 piece B, 1 piece C, 2 piece D, and 6 piece E. Hopefully the production mold was cut with those proportions in mind. However, due to metal flow and such, perhaps piece D fails a little more often than all of the other pieces, while piece E always casts correctly. So after 100 spins, maybe you'll have 90 A, 92 B, 95 C, 160 D, and 600 E. So now we can make a total of 80 war machines, with various pieces leftover and kind of wasted.

In this case we spent only $40 for the production mold, but now we have wastage for every war machine, increasing per-piece price. Traditionally I have handled this by commissioning a second mold, either a second production mold for part D, or a combination mold that has more D cavities than the other.

A variant of this is when predictions as to what will become popular don't hold.

So, pretend I commission a production mold that is three-quarters Otter turrets, and one-quarter Monkey turrets, but Monkey turrets become preferred. In this case I will produce way too many Otter turrets to secure the Monkey sales. Or, perhaps I guess the proportion correctly but once again due to casting quirks I get fewer Monkey turrets than desired.

In summary, either I make a production mold for for every piece, and worry about upfront investment wastage, or try to make a clever production mold and force myself to either create more production molds, or have piece wastage.

Obviously this problem gets harder as piece count increases. If there were only 2 separate things to cast, 2 production molds would be prudent. But in this case, there are 8 pieces to accommodate (not counting the chassis, which will obviously get its own mold).


Last edited by Otterman on Thu May 20, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Otterman wrote:
1 hull
4 turret types - freemer streamlined, freemer monkey, cannon streamlined, cannon monkey
4 sponson types - freemer exposed, freemer chunky monkey, rivetter exposed, rivetter chunky monkey

If the break down as above remains, I'll need 4 hulls, 1 of each Turret type and 1 of each sponson types. To make 4 different Raubs ... To round out my CSM AFV force ... ;D But I'll abid by you decision O-man regardless ... :-*

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:20 pm 
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Well, I am partial to the monkey turrets and sponsons for non-ordered applications, but I'll live with whatever you determine to be the best course of action.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Oh and would it be possible to put a spiky ram in front of the chassis for enhanced un-order?

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:53 pm 
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I wouldn't want Monkey turrets or sponsons.


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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:52 am 
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What would the hypothetical difference in cost be if you made 1 Chassis mold, 1 Otter turret/open sponson mold, and 1 Monkey turret/bulky sponson mold? This would make a natural proportion of one Monkey Sprue of Cannon and Freem turrets, and riveter and freem bulky sponsons, per 2 hulls. Or a similar Otter Sprue per 2 hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:33 am 
So, you're assuming that freem turrets will always be paired with rivetter spons, and cannon turrets will always be paired with freem sponsons?

Given my assumptions about the various non-ordered lists, that seems logical, but would people want more turrets than sponsons for some reason or another?


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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:58 am 
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Otterman wrote:
So, you're assuming that freem turrets will always be paired with rivetter spons, and cannon turrets will always be paired with freem sponsons?

Given my assumptions about the various non-ordered lists, that seems logical, but would people want more turrets than sponsons for some reason or another?

Considering that people usually have loads of plastic troop transports lying around, I could see using the spare turrets and sponsons in conversions - it would almost be a 2-for-1 type of deal, in my opinion. That's what I was planning anyway. I feel the Otter parts fit the streamlined chassis better, while the Monkey parts fit the older, chunkier chassis.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:15 pm 
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I was assuming a turret/sponson mold would include a turret of each type, and two pairs of sponsons, again one of each type. Thus the sprue would equip two hulls with no leftovers, and allow mix-n-match of primary and secondary weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: The Raubtier
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Otterman wrote:
So, you're assuming that freem turrets will always be paired with rivetter spons, and cannon turrets will always be paired with freem sponsons?

Given my assumptions about the various non-ordered lists, that seems logical, but would people want more turrets than sponsons for some reason or another?

I've got no problem with extra turrets ... or anything for that matter !! And anyone who does not want the extras, I'm sure he can trade'm here !! ;)

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