Logan Grimnar |
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar  Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:01 pm |
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I think that this raises in important question. There are a handful of people who are very good painters. Is it worht have a seperate 'veterans' category for a select few really good painters? What do peopel think?
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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netepic
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:07 pm |
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Are there enough veteran painters to do this?
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:14 pm |
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There's also the question of how we determine who the veteran painters are.
I certainly hope that my feeble work doesn't count as veteran even though I've been painting for a long time!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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TuffSkull
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:20 pm |
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This could get very tricky with deciding what classifies a Veteran.
- Age - I'm only just 21, so would that count?
- Number of years in the hobby - 15, so I'd definitely classify there, but:
- Number of years painting - only 4.
- Level of skill - How do you define it?
Depending on how it's split, I can see that you'd get the winner of the novice category being only marginally better than somethings from the "Veteran" category which wouldn't rank.
People might feel that they've been misplaced & have missed an opportunity to either compete with the Veterans or to win in the Novice category.
Seriously, if Jimbo's Snapdragon scenery is taken on as a category prize, I will reserve the right to enter that category.
Other than that, if people would prefer it, I will hold off for Golden Demon & just submit my images for general reviewing & critique (maybe with the odd article for Incoming too!).
_________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:41 pm |
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The solution I see is to make "veteran" status voluntary.
It won't keep all of the "vets" off the field, but it will keep the good-natured ones in the "vet" category. Most of us are good-natured here anyway so it would probably work.
In the past, we've seen that it's mostly the most vocal and active members that enter anyway.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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netepic
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:51 pm |
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Question is - can you trust human nature?
I am not trying to insult the list in any way/shape/form but can we rely on all 100 members to be as honest as Paul?
How do you determine the different between a skilled novice and average veteran?
Surely the winner of the novice category would be good enough to be in the veterans category, and the person who came last in the veterans would be classed as someone for the novice painter.
How do we cope with ego as well? I say have just one category, but take into account, inspiration, imagination and effort.
Technical painting expertise should not be the deciding factor in ALL categories.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:38 pm |
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NetEpic,
Tough decision. Trusting others is hard to do. We can probably count on someone not being completely honest, but that's the way things go. Most of us old-timers will be honest.
I know that since I've been around awhile I'd probably open a new thread and ask what kind of painter I am. Most of you have seen my work in one form or another. I personally don't think of myself as a veteran or even talented painter.
I guess that we'd need some criteria as to what makes one a veteran painter.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:41 pm |
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Tuffskull,
That's some incredible converting on your Logan Grimnar. I just logged off my roommate's computer where NetEpic and your website are accessible (my computer still doesn't like the protocol for those sites despite troubleshooting).
I really like the axe conversion.
What did you make the axehead out of?
Cut plasticard?
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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TuffSkull
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:24 pm |
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Location: South East UK
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| Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 07 2003 July,19:41) | Tuffskull,
That's some incredible converting on your Logan Grimnar. I just logged off my roommate's computer where NetEpic and your website are accessible (my computer still doesn't like the protocol for those sites despite troubleshooting).
I really like the axe conversion.
What did you make the axehead out of?
Cut plasticard?
?
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak. |
Logan:
Thanks for the kind comments maksim.
The axe is four parts + greenstuff. The blades are two axes from Ork Kommandoes & the shaft is also two parts (ont joining the axe heads & the handle section).
I then added two "wolfs heads" (though they dont look much like it at that scale...) and some further details in green stuff.
the contest:
It appears I've opened somethig of a minefield with regards to Veteran painters. I cant think of an easy solution, though I am generall against splitting the catagories into veteran and novice. It has a number of downsides IMHO.
1) How to define a Veteran and how to avoid people entering or being entered into the wrong catagory & the this could cause.
2)twice the number of prizes are needed. Since most are being donated by the community, there's no way of keeping them even. How would you set the prizes?
3) If Fanatic is putting forward a grand prize of pre-release models, which group would you award them to? If you say they're for the best of the best, you're effectively limiting it to the Veterans (one would assume..) and you're back to square one.
My vote is to leave it as it is. I will not Enter Logan. I will probably not enter simgle miniature/unit, but will enter the other catagories if I cann complete some pieces on time. Anyone else should be free to enter as they wish & keep it simple.
My only other suggestion to encourage those who are not Veteran painters to square off against those of us who are would be to put aside a prize or two for the "peoples vote" winner from all catagories. That would be not as much down to painting and modelling skill, but the concept and background behind it (be it a good design for a battlescene, a well defined and organised squad, something humerous, or just something other than painting that still makes an entry stand out.).
I'll end by pointing out that a similar discussion as to catagories is currently ripping through the "Masterclass Miniature Painters" group which has been running a monthly contest for the last year. The end result of a LOT of posting was the decision that such a split could not be policed easily in a worth while manner and that things should stay as they are. The view was that attempting to make the split between grades would cause a lot of problems & it wasnt worth the inevitable arguments it could cause with those who take it as a serious competition.
People including myself will still enter their competition for fun with never a hope of wining, but we enter for the interest and for the feedback from other entrants (if I ever get 1 vote from that group, I know I will have suceeded - thats my simple aim!). Perhaps we should try to get the view on this contest to be the same - more focus on the learning experience with the prizes as a (very nice..) bonus.
Just my 2 cents.....  _________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:18 pm |
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| Quote (TuffSkull @ 07 2003 July,01:42) | I dont want to sound arrogant with this, but a number of people have commented that there is little point in their entry against me in the competition. I do not want to prevent other's from entering if they think there is no point!
If people would prefer, I am quite happy to not enter the single miniature/squad catagories & simply do some full reviews of the other entries. |
Tuffskull, I would be so sad if I thought my teasing caused you to not enter 
You are a better painter and that is not a bad thing. You should be happy, I am 
Please enter, I want to see your work and I believe I can learn from you as well.
I vote you should enter.
dafrca
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dafrca
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:24 pm |
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| Quote (TuffSkull @ 07 2003 July,08:56) | | Quote (netepic @ 07 2003 July,14:01) | | Ah - but then you miss out on the prizes Jervis is offering, which wouldn't be fair. |
Its a shame, yes, but I would rather lose the oppertunity to win than scare off other entrants if that is the way my models are viewed. |
I am working on my stuff that I want to enter and you will not scare me off. I will make you work for the win 
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
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TuffSkull
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:36 pm |
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| Quote (dafrca @ 07 2003 July,22:24) | | Quote (TuffSkull @ 07 2003 July,08:56) | | Quote (netepic @ 07 2003 July,14:01) | | Ah - but then you miss out on the prizes Jervis is offering, which wouldn't be fair. |
Its a shame, yes, but I would rather lose the oppertunity to win than scare off other entrants if that is the way my models are viewed. |
I am working on my stuff that I want to enter and you will not scare me off. I will make you work for the win ?
dafrca |
Hey, dont get me wrong, I would never take this for granted. I know that there are a lot of very talented guys out there and that I am far from the best, even in the relatively unusual (for competition painting that is...) scale of 6mm.
I look forward greatly to seeing your work and others - may the best (mad)man win!_________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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netepic
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 pm |
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How about this for a solution, you may only win one category maximum. The judges select which piece of category based on the number of votes.
That way Paul and the other Vets could enter as many categories as he wanted but only gets one prize giving everyone else a chance.
Then there are no issues with veterans or honesty or dumming down your painting.
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TuffSkull
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:34 pm |
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| Quote (netepic @ 07 2003 July,23:19) | How about this for a solution, you may only win one category maximum. The judges select which piece of category based on the number of votes.
That way Paul and the other Vets could enter as many categories as he wanted but only gets one prize giving everyone else a chance.
Then there are no issues with veterans or honesty or dumming down your painting. |
Good thought Tom, gets my vote._________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Logan Grimnar Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:10 am |
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| Quote (netepic @ 07 2003 July,15:19) | How about this for a solution, you may only win one category maximum. The judges select which piece of category based on the number of votes.
That way Paul and the other Vets could enter as many categories as he wanted but only gets one prize giving everyone else a chance.
Then there are no issues with veterans or honesty or dumming down your painting. |
This is an elegant solution to the problem.
I think it is a great idea.
dafrca
_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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