Tactical Command :: View topic

1.9.8 Barrages
Can a Barrage template be placed over units that can't be seen? Or over units that are out of range?
Yes, each weapon contributing to the barrage need only have a line of fire and range to a single unit under the first Barrage template. Extra Barrage templates do not require either condition, and an indirect fire barrage does not require a line of fire.

Can a Barrage template be placed completely out of range?
Extra templates certainly can, and the first Barrage template can in certain circumstances (a unit that is partially in and partially out of range for instance). The Barrage template can be placed over any part of a unit (even if that part is out of range) so long as part of that unit is in range. A line of fire is still required to this unit, unless it is an indirect fire barrage.

(Also, drop the "Is it possible to place extra..." Q&A)

1.10 Overwatch
Do formations on overwatch need to take an Action test to remain on overwatch?
Yes. However, if all the unactivated formations you have left are on overwatch you can declare they are all remaining on overwatch without an Action test (even if they are not a legal formation, in enemy zone of control, have Blast markers, etc.), effectively ending your part in the Action phase.

An air assault suffers overwatch fire when a transported formation disembarks. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire?
The disembarking formation, as it triggered the overwatch.

A commander orders a second formation to follow their formation in an assault, they count as a single formation when making an engage move and take overwatch fire. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire?
The formation that was closest to the enemy overwatching formation.

2.1.13 Skimmers
Two skimmers in an assault are in base contact with enemy units. One uses its close combat and the other its firefight. The enemy inflicts one hit on them, can the skimmer in firefight be allocated the hit?
Rules as written, yes. However, players doing so should be publicly shamed and ridiculed.

3.1 War Engine Movement
What happens to a war engine that fails a dangerous terrain test?
It takes a point of damage (check for a critical hit), but does not take a blast marker.

3.2.4 Blast Markers
Does a war engine's formation recieve a Blast marker if its critical hit effect causes a point of damage?
Yes.

3.3.1 Charge Moves
How many units does a war engine making a charge move count as when moving into base contact with an enemy unit?
One. A war engine may have a number of units equal to twice its starting damage capacity in base contact with it but it still only counts as one unit when it moves into base contact with another unit (i.e., a Baneblade with a DC of 3 could be contacted by up to six enemy Shadowswords).

Can a war engine counter charge if it has enemy units in base contact?
Yes, so long as the number of units in base contact is less than its starting damage capacity.
(Rules as written it's technically no but I don't think I've ever seen it played that way)

4.2.3 Anti-aircraft Attacks
Are jink saving throws invulnerable?
No.

4.3.4 Pin-Point Attacks
If a formation contains multiple war engines who picks the target of a pin-point attack?
The attacker. Tell your Commissars to stop opening hatches and waving swords around, they can be seen from space.

4.4 Planetfall
What happens when the "nearest area of clear ground" isn't big enough to deploy an entire formation entering play via planetfall?
The opposing player moves it to the nearest area of clear ground where the entire formation can deploy.

An air assault suffers overwatch fire when a transported formation disembarks. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire?
The disembarking formation, as it triggered the overwatch.

Can a war engine counter charge if it has enemy units in base contact?
Yes, so long as the number of units in base contact is less than its starting damage capacity.
(Rules as written it's technically no but I don't think I've ever seen it played that way)

Defending units that are not already in base contact with an enemy unit are allowed to counter charge

4.3.4 Pin-Point Attacks
If a formation contains multiple war engines who picks the target of a pin-point attack?
The attacker. Tell your Commissars to stop opening hatches and waving swords around, they can be seen from space.

4.4 Planetfall
What happens when the "nearest area of clear ground" isn't big enough to deploy an entire formation entering play via planetfall?
The opposing player moves it to the nearest area of clear ground where the entire formation can deploy.

even if for example, the OW fire was AT and could only hit the transport war engine?

RAW in my opinion it's not really technically no, the first line of the relevant paragraph is pretty explicit (emphasis mine)

If I'm reading your response right your logic was mine. Rules say no counter-charge if a unit is in base-to-base, but WE FAQ allows it to barge on the counter-charge. That's how I ended up with the "counter-charge so long you have less than your starting DC in base contact". It mirrors how it works with no-WEs that way, and also avoids the following weird situation:

Base to base with a single enemy WE and it can't counter-charge. If you fail to do that though, it's allowed to barge up to twice it's starting DC.

kyussinchains wrote:

even if for example, the OW fire was AT and could only hit the transport war engine?

It's going to be better to avoid a series of if/then statements, so if this doesn't work for people I'd say go with the "whichever formation was closer" ruling from below. I went with this as it was the answer I remember Neal providing.

1.9.8 Barrages
Can a Barrage template be placed over units that can't be seen? Or over units that are out of range?
Yes, each weapon contributing to the barrage need only have a line of fire and range to a single unit under the first Barrage template. Extra Barrage templates do not require either condition, and an indirect fire barrage does not require a line of fire.

Can a Barrage template be placed completely out of range?
Extra templates certainly can, and the first Barrage template can in certain circumstances (a unit that is partially in and partially out of range for instance). The Barrage template can be placed over any part of a unit (even if that part is out of range) so long as part of that unit is in range. A line of fire is still required to this unit, unless it is an indirect fire barrage.

(Also, drop the "Is it possible to place extra..." Q&A)

1.10 Overwatch
Do formations on overwatch need to take an Action test to remain on overwatch?
Yes. However, if all the unactivated formations you have left are on overwatch you can declare they are all remaining on overwatch without an Action test (even if they are not a legal formation, in enemy zone of control, have Blast markers, etc.), effectively ending your part in the Action phase.

An air assault suffers overwatch fire when a transported formation disembarks. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire?
The disembarking formation, as it triggered the overwatch.

A commander orders a second formation to follow their formation in an assault, they count as a single formation when making an engage move and take overwatch fire. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire?
The formation that was closest to the enemy overwatching formation.

2.1.13 Skimmers
Two skimmers in an assault are in base contact with enemy units. One uses its close combat and the other its firefight. The enemy inflicts one hit on them, can the skimmer in firefight be allocated the hit?
Rules as written, yes. However, players doing so should be publicly shamed and ridiculed.

3.1 War Engine Movement
What happens to a war engine that fails a dangerous terrain test?
It takes a point of damage (check for a critical hit), but does not take a blast marker.

3.2.4 Blast Markers
Does a war engine's formation recieve a Blast marker if its critical hit effect causes a point of damage?
Yes.

3.3.1 Charge Moves
How many units does a war engine making a charge move count as when moving into base contact with an enemy unit?
One. A war engine may have a number of units equal to twice its starting damage capacity in base contact with it but it still only counts as one unit when it moves into base contact with another unit (i.e., a Baneblade with a DC of 3 could be contacted by up to six enemy Shadowswords).

Can a war engine counter charge if it has enemy units in base contact?
Nothing in 3.3 specifically overrides "Defending units that are not already in base contact with an enemy unit are allowed to counter charge," from 1.12.4. However, War Engines are allowed to barge as part of their counter charge, so it should be brought up in the five minute warm up. A suggested compromise is to mirror how a war engine loses its zone of control: so long as the number of units in base contact with a war engine is less than its starting damage capacity it may counter charge.

4.2.3 Anti-aircraft Attacks
Are jink saving throws invulnerable?
No.

4.3.4 Pin-Point Attacks
If a formation contains multiple war engines who picks the target of a pin-point attack?
The attacker. Tell your Commissars to stop opening hatches and waving swords around, they can be seen from space.

4.4 Planetfall
What happens when the "nearest area of clear ground" isn't big enough to deploy an entire formation entering play via planetfall?
The opposing player moves it to the nearest area of clear ground where the entire formation can deploy.

I discussed the countercharging stuff with dptdexys, MikeT, and Steve54 last week, I'm pretty sure that the EpicUK approach going forward will be that war engines are not permitted to countercharge if enemy units are in BTB contact. The intention is to follow the rules as written, even if it can lead to weird situations

Would you discuss the epic UK ruling on 'passing' on overwatch formations at the end of the turn? The written rules contradict that one too, i.e. all formations take an action.

kyussinchains wrote:

Would you discuss the epic UK ruling on 'passing' on overwatch formations at the end of the turn? The written rules contradict that one too, i.e. all formations take an action.

Section 1.10: Overwatch

Q: Can a unit remain on Overwatch into a following turn?
A: If the Formation hasn't fired by the end of the turn, then they can remain on Overwatch into the following turn.

Author:	Dave [ Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:	FAQ update
I dubbing October "FAQ update month". I've combed through threads mentioning "FAQ" all the way back to the start of 2018 and came up with these. If you know of others that should be included please post them here. If you want to talk about a certain one then I'd say start a thread for it, otherwise this thread could get crowded fast. Quote: 1.9.8 Barrages Can a Barrage template be placed over units that can't be seen? Or over units that are out of range? Yes, each weapon contributing to the barrage need only have a line of fire and range to a single unit under the first Barrage template. Extra Barrage templates do not require either condition, and an indirect fire barrage does not require a line of fire. Can a Barrage template be placed completely out of range? Extra templates certainly can, and the first Barrage template can in certain circumstances (a unit that is partially in and partially out of range for instance). The Barrage template can be placed over any part of a unit (even if that part is out of range) so long as part of that unit is in range. A line of fire is still required to this unit, unless it is an indirect fire barrage. (Also, drop the "Is it possible to place extra..." Q&A) 1.10 Overwatch Do formations on overwatch need to take an Action test to remain on overwatch? Yes. However, if all the unactivated formations you have left are on overwatch you can declare they are all remaining on overwatch without an Action test (even if they are not a legal formation, in enemy zone of control, have Blast markers, etc.), effectively ending your part in the Action phase. An air assault suffers overwatch fire when a transported formation disembarks. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire? The disembarking formation, as it triggered the overwatch. A commander orders a second formation to follow their formation in an assault, they count as a single formation when making an engage move and take overwatch fire. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire? The formation that was closest to the enemy overwatching formation. 2.1.13 Skimmers Two skimmers in an assault are in base contact with enemy units. One uses its close combat and the other its firefight. The enemy inflicts one hit on them, can the skimmer in firefight be allocated the hit? Rules as written, yes. However, players doing so should be publicly shamed and ridiculed. 3.1 War Engine Movement What happens to a war engine that fails a dangerous terrain test? It takes a point of damage (check for a critical hit), but does not take a blast marker. 3.2.4 Blast Markers Does a war engine's formation recieve a Blast marker if its critical hit effect causes a point of damage? Yes. 3.3.1 Charge Moves How many units does a war engine making a charge move count as when moving into base contact with an enemy unit? One. A war engine may have a number of units equal to twice its starting damage capacity in base contact with it but it still only counts as one unit when it moves into base contact with another unit (i.e., a Baneblade with a DC of 3 could be contacted by up to six enemy Shadowswords). Can a war engine counter charge if it has enemy units in base contact? Yes, so long as the number of units in base contact is less than its starting damage capacity. (Rules as written it's technically no but I don't think I've ever seen it played that way) 4.2.3 Anti-aircraft Attacks Are jink saving throws invulnerable? No. 4.3.4 Pin-Point Attacks If a formation contains multiple war engines who picks the target of a pin-point attack? The attacker. Tell your Commissars to stop opening hatches and waving swords around, they can be seen from space. 4.4 Planetfall What happens when the "nearest area of clear ground" isn't big enough to deploy an entire formation entering play via planetfall? The opposing player moves it to the nearest area of clear ground where the entire formation can deploy.

Author:	kyussinchains [ Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Couple of queries/clarifications Dave wrote: An air assault suffers overwatch fire when a transported formation disembarks. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire? The disembarking formation, as it triggered the overwatch. even if for example, the OW fire was AT and could only hit the transport war engine? Quote: Can a war engine counter charge if it has enemy units in base contact? Yes, so long as the number of units in base contact is less than its starting damage capacity. (Rules as written it's technically no but I don't think I've ever seen it played that way) RAW in my opinion it's not really technically no, the first line of the relevant paragraph is pretty explicit (emphasis mine) Rulebook 1.12.4 wrote: Defending units that are not already in base contact with an enemy unit are allowed to counter charge ergo if you are already in BTB contact then you may not make a counter charge move, and to pre-empt the response I've seen a lot, the counter charge barging FAQ covers barging as part of a countercharge (eg. your warhound is 2cm from the enemy after all charge moves, it may countercharge the full 10cm, barging any enemy it contacts as it goes) I have actually ruled on this at a tournament as a TO, and I went with the rules as written, there is no exception for war engines noted in the war engine section, so like everything else, the regular rules apply as normal, so a war engine may not countercharge if it is already in BTB with an enemy unit Quote: 4.3.4 Pin-Point Attacks If a formation contains multiple war engines who picks the target of a pin-point attack? The attacker. Tell your Commissars to stop opening hatches and waving swords around, they can be seen from space. love this and agree 100% -war engines have enough good sides, they deserve a few drawbacks too Quote: 4.4 Planetfall What happens when the "nearest area of clear ground" isn't big enough to deploy an entire formation entering play via planetfall? The opposing player moves it to the nearest area of clear ground where the entire formation can deploy. excellent, no auto-destroyed formations!

Author:	Dave [ Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
kyussinchains wrote: even if for example, the OW fire was AT and could only hit the transport war engine? It's going to be better to avoid a series of if/then statements, so if this doesn't work for people I'd say go with the "whichever formation was closer" ruling from below. I went with this as it was the answer I remember Neal providing. Quote: RAW in my opinion it's not really technically no, the first line of the relevant paragraph is pretty explicit (emphasis mine) If I'm reading your response right your logic was mine. Rules say no counter-charge if a unit is in base-to-base, but WE FAQ allows it to barge on the counter-charge. That's how I ended up with the "counter-charge so long you have less than your starting DC in base contact". It mirrors how it works with no-WEs that way, and also avoids the following weird situation: Base to base with a single enemy WE and it can't counter-charge. If you fail to do that though, it's allowed to barge up to twice it's starting DC.

Author:	kyussinchains [ Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Dave wrote: If I'm reading your response right your logic was mine. Rules say no counter-charge if a unit is in base-to-base, but WE FAQ allows it to barge on the counter-charge. That's how I ended up with the "counter-charge so long you have less than your starting DC in base contact". It mirrors how it works with no-WEs that way, and also avoids the following weird situation: Base to base with a single enemy WE and it can't counter-charge. If you fail to do that though, it's allowed to barge up to twice it's starting DC. I'm just going on the rules as written, I don't like to infer anything more, the counter charge rules clearly state that no counter charge if a unit is in BTB, and as there is nothing in the war engine section, errata or GW FAQ to provide an exception, my conclusion would be that the rule also applies to war engines, however silly it may seem and yeah that's a weird situation, but personally I think the rules as written permit it, and any clarification contradicting it boils down to effectively creating a new rule, based on personal opinion (and we all know what opinions are like ) I'd have no issues playing it this way, but I think it should probably be a 5-min warmup/TO question rather than 'official' As I said, I had to rule on it as a TO earlier this year, and after reading through it a few times, I had to rule that the WE's in question could not counter charge because nothing in the rulebook provided an exception to 1.12.4 that's my 2 cents on the issue

Author:	Kyrt [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Dave wrote: kyussinchains wrote: even if for example, the OW fire was AT and could only hit the transport war engine? It's going to be better to avoid a series of if/then statements, so if this doesn't work for people I'd say go with the "whichever formation was closer" ruling from below. I went with this as it was the answer I remember Neal providing. The 'closest' ruling doesn't change that, in both cases the formation that receives the blast marker may not have any valid targets for the shooting. But I don't think it's a show stopper. Ultimately you just have to make a call. It's a little weird not to have the same ruling for both cases, I know there is a logic to it though - i.e. really what you're saying for air assaults is "the closest formation that moved". Except that it is possible to also have a similar situation arise for combined assault too, i.e. only one of the formations moves but the other one is closer/only valid target. Not the same, but similar. You could make them consistent by saying exactly that though - "the closest formation that moved". Also bear in mind that you can still have multiple formations disembark from a war engine transport.

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

FAQ update http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=34080	Page 1 of 2

Author:	ffoley [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
I agree with Kyuss on counter-charging. I know there are two sides to this and both think they are right. Are you just putting it to bed based on weight of numbers?

Author:	Dave [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
If the major metas were in complete agreement I'd go that way, without that though it belongs in the 5-minute warm up (it's what we've done in the past).

Author:	Dave [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Pushing these to the TP in a bit, changes below to reflect comments above: Quote: 1.9.8 Barrages Can a Barrage template be placed over units that can't be seen? Or over units that are out of range? Yes, each weapon contributing to the barrage need only have a line of fire and range to a single unit under the first Barrage template. Extra Barrage templates do not require either condition, and an indirect fire barrage does not require a line of fire. Can a Barrage template be placed completely out of range? Extra templates certainly can, and the first Barrage template can in certain circumstances (a unit that is partially in and partially out of range for instance). The Barrage template can be placed over any part of a unit (even if that part is out of range) so long as part of that unit is in range. A line of fire is still required to this unit, unless it is an indirect fire barrage. (Also, drop the "Is it possible to place extra..." Q&A) 1.10 Overwatch Do formations on overwatch need to take an Action test to remain on overwatch? Yes. However, if all the unactivated formations you have left are on overwatch you can declare they are all remaining on overwatch without an Action test (even if they are not a legal formation, in enemy zone of control, have Blast markers, etc.), effectively ending your part in the Action phase. An air assault suffers overwatch fire when a transported formation disembarks. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire? The disembarking formation, as it triggered the overwatch. A commander orders a second formation to follow their formation in an assault, they count as a single formation when making an engage move and take overwatch fire. Which formation receives the Blast marker for coming under fire? The formation that was closest to the enemy overwatching formation. 2.1.13 Skimmers Two skimmers in an assault are in base contact with enemy units. One uses its close combat and the other its firefight. The enemy inflicts one hit on them, can the skimmer in firefight be allocated the hit? Rules as written, yes. However, players doing so should be publicly shamed and ridiculed. 3.1 War Engine Movement What happens to a war engine that fails a dangerous terrain test? It takes a point of damage (check for a critical hit), but does not take a blast marker. 3.2.4 Blast Markers Does a war engine's formation recieve a Blast marker if its critical hit effect causes a point of damage? Yes. 3.3.1 Charge Moves How many units does a war engine making a charge move count as when moving into base contact with an enemy unit? One. A war engine may have a number of units equal to twice its starting damage capacity in base contact with it but it still only counts as one unit when it moves into base contact with another unit (i.e., a Baneblade with a DC of 3 could be contacted by up to six enemy Shadowswords). Can a war engine counter charge if it has enemy units in base contact? Nothing in 3.3 specifically overrides "Defending units that are not already in base contact with an enemy unit are allowed to counter charge," from 1.12.4. However, War Engines are allowed to barge as part of their counter charge, so it should be brought up in the five minute warm up. A suggested compromise is to mirror how a war engine loses its zone of control: so long as the number of units in base contact with a war engine is less than its starting damage capacity it may counter charge. 4.2.3 Anti-aircraft Attacks Are jink saving throws invulnerable? No. 4.3.4 Pin-Point Attacks If a formation contains multiple war engines who picks the target of a pin-point attack? The attacker. Tell your Commissars to stop opening hatches and waving swords around, they can be seen from space. 4.4 Planetfall What happens when the "nearest area of clear ground" isn't big enough to deploy an entire formation entering play via planetfall? The opposing player moves it to the nearest area of clear ground where the entire formation can deploy.

Author:	kyussinchains [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
I discussed the countercharging stuff with dptdexys, MikeT, and Steve54 last week, I'm pretty sure that the EpicUK approach going forward will be that war engines are not permitted to countercharge if enemy units are in BTB contact. The intention is to follow the rules as written, even if it can lead to weird situations

Author:	jimmyzimms [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
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Author:	Kyrt [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
kyussinchains wrote: I discussed the countercharging stuff with dptdexys, MikeT, and Steve54 last week, I'm pretty sure that the EpicUK approach going forward will be that war engines are not permitted to countercharge if enemy units are in BTB contact. The intention is to follow the rules as written, even if it can lead to weird situations Would you discuss the epic UK ruling on 'passing' on overwatch formations at the end of the turn? The written rules contradict that one too, i.e. all formations take an action.

Author:	jimbojoneshost [ Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Kyrt wrote: Would you discuss the epic UK ruling on 'passing' on overwatch formations at the end of the turn? The written rules contradict that one too, i.e. all formations take an action. I'd love some discussion about this too as it does seem counter-intuitive to the way the rules are written at the moment.

Author:	D_Arquebus [ Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Kyrt wrote: kyussinchains wrote: I discussed the countercharging stuff with dptdexys, MikeT, and Steve54 last week, I'm pretty sure that the EpicUK approach going forward will be that war engines are not permitted to countercharge if enemy units are in BTB contact. The intention is to follow the rules as written, even if it can lead to weird situations Would you discuss the epic UK ruling on 'passing' on overwatch formations at the end of the turn? The written rules contradict that one too, i.e. all formations take an action. Thirded I understood that the ERC was against overriding the rules as written? Avoiding the need to activate in a turn seems to do exactly that? Cheers

Author:	Dave [ Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
I'll have a look next week, but I believe that was something Neal approved (if it wasn't in the 09 update).

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Author:	Ginger [ Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: FAQ update
Neal has already ruled on this in the 2012 FAQ; Quote: Section 1.10: Overwatch Q: Can a unit remain on Overwatch into a following turn? A: If the Formation hasn't fired by the end of the turn, then they can remain on Overwatch into the following turn. Note, in order to achieve this the formation effectively ‘passes’ its activation, but may only do that after all other formations have activated. This process was then articulated by the E-UK.