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NetEA Tournament Pack

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:42 am 
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Hi.

First of all, thank you very much.

Second, is there any way to know what exactly the changes are between the previous version and this one? It could be done as GW does with its FAQs by changing the color of new things.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:07 am 
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All the changes are tracked in github: https://github.com/dsusco/tp.net-armage ... its/master

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:53 pm 
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I wonder if this is ever going to be adressed:

Stigmatus Covenant, SR 2, Ini 2+
- Artillery Battery Four Basilisks 325 points

Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marine, SR 4, Ini 1+
- Artillery Battery Four Chaos Basilisks 325 points
(with access to stalkers, emplacement, and drop pods in the army)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:14 pm 
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That's something for MikeT and amiger84 to look into.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:59 am 
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This is some great work, Dave!

LB, not sure what your post has to do, directly with, the Tourney Pack. :eh Dave documents the approved lists, FAQ, rules not debating individual lists (at least here). Is there something incorrectly entered on those two formations in the TP or????

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:41 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
This is some great work, Dave!

LB, not sure what your post has to do, directly with, the Tourney Pack. :eh Dave documents the approved lists, FAQ, rules not debating individual lists (at least here). Is there something incorrectly entered on those two formations in the TP or????


So that means that you are pretty sure it's not a typo??

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:18 pm 
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It is not a typo.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:26 am 
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I have noted that since the Tactical command website has been refurbished and old data removed, the NetEA tournament pack link has dropped ALL of the army lists for approved army lists. I can not find feral space marines, imperial fists, iyanden Eldar, and many more that I now need since my computer did an auto update and the new version wiped out alot of my directories, links to desktop files, and a lot of my browser "favourites shortcuts". Can they be sourced and put back on the website here thank you?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Deb, are you talking about attachments on the forum? That was supposedly fixed a few days ago.

https://www.net-armageddon.org/tp/ appears to still have all the approved lists.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:19 pm 
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It took a little bit of work but the site is now all set at https://net-armageddon.org/tp/

Disregard, CS got the subdomain up again. The TP remains at: https://tp.net-armageddon.org/

I'll be getting the Guard changes into it in the coming weeks, as well as the Skitarri list. Both we'll take awhile as my environment is at work and I'm working from home most days.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:38 pm 
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Hello and thanks for the work.

While talking about the flak attacks, something came up about the FAQ that was added on the TP for 4.2 about the order on aircraft:

On 4.2.3 says that

Quote:
Aircraft can shoot at other aircraft either when making a flak attack (see 4.2.4) or when attacking as part of an interception action.


And 4.2.4 says that flak attacks can only be defensive, so only the one defending himself from CAP or interception can fire, as one cannot defend himself if not being attacked.

Quote:
4.2.4 Flak Attacks 64
AA weapons are designed to fire defensively against an attacking enemy aircraft,


But the FAQ on 4.2 puts it in a way that seems to say that any enemy FORMATION aircraft can make flak attacks if they are in range after the approach move, not only the one defending itself.

Quote:
3. All anti-aircraft and flak attacks (from any enemy aircraft formations that are within range at the end of the aircraft’s approach move


And GW's FAQ from where the one on the TP is based on states clearly that only the one in CAP and the one being attacked fires.

Quote:
4. Attacking aircrafts' defensive AA fires (i.e. not just ground flak)
• 5. Defender's ground flak fires at attacking air units (if applicable).
• 6. CAP formation fires at attacking air units (if applicable).
• 7. Attacking air units perform ground attack or assault.


Is it a case of not being 100% clear on the TP's FAQ or was this change intended? I do not remember ever reading a battle report where this happens, it is changing things which have not yet been explained, it could be used to set up previously a wall of fighters around where an aircraft on air assault orders will be to destroy any CAP before they can fire, and looks like it complicates things a lot while EA's rules are all about simplifying, which makes me suspicious.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:56 pm 
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The key is this: the target formation gets to fire at interceptors if they passed into the target formation's AA range at any point during the interceptor's approach move. Additionally, aircraft allies of the target formation also get to fire at the interceptors as well but ONLY is the interceptor's END their approach move within AA range of the aircraft allies.

That's how it was ruled anyway, by Neil and the '09 rules update I believe (or maybe even before that).

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:17 am 
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Not sure I am following but I am wondering if perhaps the sentence order of point 3 is giving a wrong impression. Flak should pertain to ground units, anti-air is the weapon type (so both air and ground). Aircraft have AA weapons but they’re only flak when landed. Flak shouldn’t be limited to the end of the approach move, so is the intention to make landed aircraft a special type of flak, or is this point not really meant to refer to flak?

I am not sure that “designed to fire defensively” is particularly normative, it’s context describing the battlefield role of these weapons and goes on to explain the rules. Flak is by its nature defensive, you fire it at aircraft moving past you, it doesn’t mean “only fired at aircraft attacking your formation”. Flak has always been fired at any units in range during the approach move.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:57 am 
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Dave wrote:
The key is this: the target formation gets to fire at interceptors if they passed into the target formation's AA range at any point during the interceptor's approach move. Additionally, aircraft allies of the target formation also get to fire at the interceptors as well but ONLY is the interceptor's END their approach move within AA range of the aircraft allies.

That's how it was ruled anyway, by Neil and the '09 rules update I believe (or maybe even before that).


Ok, but where it says that it is different for the defending unit from its allies in the conditions to fire (''at any point'' vs ''only at the end'' like you put it? I would like to know to tell others in the future but i do not see it. It specifies it with ground units that it can be if they pass at any point of their approach move and aircraft at the end, but i find nothing about differences between aircraft formation allies of the defender and defending aircraft formations, only between ground units and aircraft.

Quote:
Ground units that are armed with AA weapons can shoot at enemy aircraft as they move past them.

Quote:
All anti-aircraft and flak attacks (from any enemy aircraft formations that are within range at the end of the aircraft’s approach move and any enemy ground units with an AA value that were in range during the aircraft’s approach move)



Kyrt wrote:
Not sure I am following but I am wondering if perhaps the sentence order of point 3 is giving a wrong impression. Flak should pertain to ground units, anti-air is the weapon type (so both air and ground). Aircraft have AA weapons but they’re only flak when landed. Flak shouldn’t be limited to the end of the approach move, so is the intention to make landed aircraft a special type of flak, or is this point not really meant to refer to flak?

In my opinion i think it is clear on that point: It says that aircraft can only fire if intercepting or making flak attacks, so flak attacks are not only for ground units. It doesn't specify either if when on ground or air.

Quote:
Aircraft can shoot at other aircraft either when making a flak attack (see 4.2.4) or when attacking as part of an interception action.


But later it also says that landed aircraft count as a normal land unit, so it is not that its flak is special when landed but that it becomes like any other land unit's flak.

Quote:
Once landed, the aircraft is treated in all ways as a ground unit with a speed of 0


Or were you talking about another part?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:23 pm 
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Abetillo wrote:
Ok, but where it says that it is different for the defending unit from its allies in the conditions to fire (''at any point'' vs ''only at the end'' like you put it? I would like to know to tell others in the future but i do not see it. It specifies it with ground units that it can be if they pass at any point of their approach move and aircraft at the end, but i find nothing about differences between aircraft formation allies of the defender and defending aircraft formations, only between ground units and aircraft.


See the original FAQ for 4.2.4 here, this allows any enemy aircraft to target interceptors "at the end of their approach move": https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 15#p446315

My mistake earlier on, here's what I should have said:

Quote:
Any aircraft formation gets to fire its AA at any enemy aircraft formation that ends its approach move within range of that AA (this is from the FAQ above).

Any ground formation that is not broken and has not marched gets to fire its AA at any enemy aircraft formation that moved within ranged of that AA during its approach or disengagement move.


I had thought somewhere Neal had said that the target of an interception gets to fire at those interceptors if they moved within range of its AA during their approach move. I can't find it right now, can anyone else? If that's not the case it does seem like a powerful bump for Ork Fighta-bommers (who shoot all around) based on who we've been playing it in New England. Or maybe not, they're only range 15cm.

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